2009) I BOUGHT A FORD PRODUCT!...

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08-11-2009, 12:26 AM
99octane

Help 99octane decide which car to buy ... UPDATE ON PAGE 2! (8/12/2009) I BOUGHT A FORD PRODUCT!...

Ok, I'm at a musclecar / finances / age crossroads. I just turned 40, so I'm due for a midlife crisis car. <img src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif"> I've done fairly well in my little start-up business of coins and bullion, so I have some money stashed. Not enough to call myself wealthy or even "set", because my house could suck up ALL my money if I tried to get it back into decent shape. Anywho - I am faced with a decision this week. I have three choices. Choice # 1: 1968 Camaro SS, non matching numbers but above average condition. Car has a 396 big block, TH400 Automatic, 12 bolt posi. Suitable for cruise nights and local car shows, nothing national, no mirrors for the undercarrige if you know what I mean. Overall condition on a scale of 1 to 10 is a 8.5 Bottom line price: $23,000. Car is local to me. (You may have seen me post these photos before). <img height="1720" src="http://home.earthlink.net/~99octane/03/1968-Camaro-Black-396-auto.jpg" width="1024" alt="image"> Choice # 2 is a restored 1969 Plymouth Roadrunner. Mopar B5 blue. It too is non-matching. It actually started life as a GTX with a 440, not just a lowly Plymouth Satellite. The car is once again a 440, (despite the hood vents reading "383") now done as a Roadrunner. 4 speed manual trans., 8 3/4" sure-grip (posi) rear end. Pistol grip shifter. Full frame-off restoration in and out less than 3 years ago. Overall condition on a scale of 1 to 10 is 9 to 9.25. The car is not local to me and will require shipping. I trust the seller and have seen many more photos (and videos!) with greater detail than these. Bottom line price to me is $26,000. <img height="3664" src="http://home.earthlink.net/~99octane/03/1969-Roadrunner-B5blue-440-4speed-zz.jpg" width="1022" alt="image"> Choice # 3 is keep the damn money. I've never spent $25 grand on anything in my life, though I've come close on a coin! I am not independantly wealthy. In fact, buying one of these two cars will cut my life savings in half. To get some idea how much money this is, the photo below is $19,000. FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS short of the Camaro, and SEVEN THOUSAND dollars less than the Roadrunner. <img height="1200" src="http://home.earthlink.net/~99octane/03/19k.JPG" width="1600" alt="image"><img src="http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/f2835d5bb31e510e9e9f34223ed295c6b7a580a.pjpg" alt="image"> Not including sales tax (MA is now 6.25%) and insurance, etc etc. Ugh. My head hurts! I can make up my own mind of course, but I do value the input of friends and other "car people". <img src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif"> Thus, the poll. Help! Greg
08-11-2009, 12:32 AM
toysalot

In these times I would say keep your money. But if the plymouth is an actual frame off resto and it is more than a 9 grade, I would have to say buy the plymouth. Yes, even though I am a chevy guy fromway back! Also, the 1:1s are just like our little toy cars... condition...condition...condition...condition is everything!
08-11-2009, 12:43 AM
Sleepercivic

I'm not familiar with the values of these cars but if it was me, I'd pick my favorite (you know you have a favorite), low ball (but be fair)and if thatfails low ball the other (its a big buyers market right now)...if they both pass hang on to your $$ :) Either way I love both cars, but i had to vote for the Camaro (id just change the wheels) Rich
08-11-2009, 01:30 AM
patwheels

Interesting dilemma. Impossible for anyone of us to say what you should do, but I imagine the differing opinions make it interesting and make you think,which is really the point. So, here's mine. If the Camaro is truly an 8.5 car, the low ball or pass. I've seen nicer ones go for $20k or less. Onthe Camaro v. Roadrunner debate in general, I would say it may depend on whether you are drawn to the more or less common element. Camaros are timeless andwill very likely hold their value over time due to the magnitude of their following. The Roadrunner is clearly less common and I think makes a statement aboutthe owner: dare to be a little different (can you say MOPAR v. Chevy)... The Roadrunner is gorgeous but I can't seem to get past how changed it is (it's a GTX, no a Roadrunner---it's a 440, no a 383...), especially forthe money. It would be one thing if you found it in a barn and restored it yourself and modified it along the way to make it the metamorphized machine it isnow, but I don't see dropping that kind of coin to buy someone else's modified job. My vote: Don't keep the money on account of the economy, keep the money for now in order to keep looking. There are countless forced sales happeningevery day and good iron is surfacing all around--wait to you find exactly what you are looking for, for the right price. Just my two cents. Pat PS. If you do buy one of them, bring it to the LA Convention so we can all drool on it! <img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/happy.gif" alt="image">
08-11-2009, 03:28 AM
Redline Whiteline

the road runner is too much money for a clone, you will loose on that car in the long run. can't help ya on the camaro's value. i'll call ya afterwork today
08-11-2009, 07:32 AM
red spectra

Ever since I bought my Galaxie 500 in April '08,I have had more fun with spending money fixing it then I ever had spending money before in my life. Whybother making money if your not gonna enjoy it. Besides,I have received a far greater return with the memories I now have with many more waiting for me tocollect. Soon we will all be old and start to hear the Reapers footsteps gaining on us,what good will stacks of paper be then. Go with what you like. Me,I sayRoadrunner,but only if the price is reduced,thats to much for that car.
08-11-2009, 07:47 AM
hotbirdsplanes

It killed me to do it, but I had to vote to keep your money in this economy (at least until things get better). No doubt because of how profoundly I have beenaffected. But that's not what I want to say, because I do agree that we only live once and part of the goal is to be happy. If I put that aside, I think viewing such a purchase as an investment adds an element that takes all the fun out of it. They're both beautiful. Andthere's plenty more out there in this buyer's market. But between the two, I'd go for the Roadrunner IF they knocked a few grand off the price.
08-11-2009, 08:09 AM
NITROJOHNNY

Gregg, Be patient & search, cash is king, both are nice but na's. If & when you buy, get something worth the dollars spent. Have the numbers match & the words automatic & muscle are a tough mix. John
08-11-2009, 09:14 AM
PeepingScott

Wait for the right "divorce" car to pop up at the right price! I knew a guy that was looking for a particular Vette, and it took almost 5 years for it to materialize. He told me way back then be patient and it willhappen... I like the Camaro though!!
08-11-2009, 09:56 AM
99octane

Thank you all very much for all the input so far. At the time I type this reply, it's interesting to me how the poll shows such a balanced division between the 4 options. It reflects how divided I am about this too. And the arguments both pro and con expressed to this point echo the very thoughts I've had as well. Some more pricing info for you: The Camaro's original asking price was $27,500. I've already done all the negotiations I will be successful at with both sellers. $23k is the lowest the seller will go on the Camaro. It's an extremely nice car and I think well worth the money. Cars only slightly better or with the far more common small block engine are fetching $25k in comparable condition, and I like the color scheme and hood on this particular one better anyway. (LOVE black musclecars). Interior, some grease on the engine / rust on the headers, and undercarrige are the only things making me grade this car an 8.5. It presents as a 9 or better to the eye. The external body is nearly flawless. The Roadrunner: Original asking price was $31,900. It's from Bay City Motors, a company the sells specifically classic cars. You can view the page on the car here: <a target="_blank" href="http://www.thebaycitymotorcompany.com/sites/inventory/Cars/C0000177/default.htm">http://www.thebaycitymotorcompany.com/sites/inventory/Cars/C0000177/default.htm</a> This car, like the others they sell, are on consignment from the owner, who in this case is also the restorer. Be sure to click on the small video in the upper left of the 4 small videos. Turn up your speakers. Heh. Too much money for a clone? Why? (Seriously, I'm asking, not arguing) I see matching numbers Roadrunners selling for $50k in similar condition. And this car ALWAYS had a 440, it was a GTX by the vin number. HEMI's sell for $75k and more. 383's sell for about $35k. I think $25k for this car and another $1000 to ship it in an enclosed trailer is reasonable. Mark, I know you're the man when it comes to real musclecars and have far more experience than I with Mopar's, so please - set me straight! And for the argument that boils down to "you only live once", you have no idea how heavily that's weighing in this decision... My health SUCKS, I've been feeling dizzy and weak with pressure headaches for over 2 years , and I don't know where it's going to level off or IF it is. My mother died young at 64, so there's that, and I have no children to worry about. But I DO have a wife and a delapidated house to worry about. Responsibility vs. fun, ya know? I hate that choice. I want a musclecar. I've been looking for 3 months now. "Divorce cars" and "fire sale" cars are catch as catch can. After looking at all the different cars that *might* show up, all the available muscle cars out there, it came down to a first gen Camaro or a B body Plymouth/Dodge. That's a Roadrunner or SuperBee. Anything less (Satellite or Coronet) I'd have cloned myself into the better version anyway. And I can't work on cars like I used to with my health, so I'm looking at a car that's turn key and go. That's my criteria. What will I have left after buying one of these? About $25k. Please don't say buy them both...already thought of that. <img src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif"> Greg I've already done all the negotiating on that car that will do any good. It's time for me to $h!t or get off the pot... on both cars
08-11-2009, 10:00 AM
ravenstang

I would say if you have to pick... get the MOPAR. Only reason, No offense to anyone here... but "everyone" has one. The Camaro, and the Mustangs areall over. Go to a car show, and you are like 20 other guys. Get the RoadRunner, and you will be different then the rest. I love the Mustangs.... but wanted tobe different, so I am resto-modding a Cougar. If I had that money to spend, I would wait, and something eye popping will come around. Jeff
08-11-2009, 10:27 AM
ziurtoys

<div class="scrolling"> <div> Gregg, Be patient & search, cash is king, both are nice but na's. If & when you buy, get something worth the dollars spent. Have the numbers match & the words automatic & muscle are a tough mix. John </div> If you CAN, be patient & keep your eyes open for the one that will carry you to joy heaven ~ </div> <div> Gregg, Be patient & search, cash is king, both are nice but na's. If & when you buy, get something worth the dollars spent. Have the numbers match & the words automatic & muscle are a tough mix. John </div> If you CAN, be patient & keep your eyes open for the one that will carry you to joy heaven ~ Gregg, Be patient & search, cash is king, both are nice but na's. If & when you buy, get something worth the dollars spent. Have the numbers match & the words automatic & muscle are a tough mix. John
08-11-2009, 11:04 AM
FTBYSRACIN

OK, here's a view from the true car perspective, the Road runner is not a clone but a DOWNGRADE!!! why would you take the top of the line car and make itinto the cheaper sports version? if it's a gtx, it's worth more money when correct! so if it's a 9 or better, you can seriously INCREASE the valueof the car by installing the correct grill and badges, even if it's not numbers matching,( which is easier to correct with a 440 than say a hemi, or sixpack motor) i love hideaway headlight cars, but after owing a big honking torque monster 440 powered car( 69 coronet r/t convertible) I know it'll outrunthat camaro as well! ( that ought to start a keyboard fight!) ( did I mention it was a b5 blue 4 speed car?) bottom line though, buy what you like! it'syour money! the car is not a clone, it's worth more than it's represented!! they're both freakin cool tho!!!!
08-11-2009, 11:20 AM
bobbyj59

Greg, I am in the "you only live once" camp. Definitely buy one of the cars (or another car if a better one comes up). Your budget seems to be around$25,000 and you are not wiping yourself out to buy the car. The car should hold its value for you and your not really "out" the $25,000, you justtransferred your cash into another form of investment. All things considered, the Camaro has to be the one to buy. There are more potential Camaro purchasersout there if you ever have to sell. Also, drivability should be a factor. I know comparing a 396 to a 440 as far as gas mileage is a joke, but from a comfortstandpoint, I've got to imagine that the Camaro has a better overall "ride" and comfort level for your 40 year old bones <img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/wink.gif" alt="image"> Scott is right about finding a "divorce" car as an alternative to these two. While he used the term "divorce car" we are really talkingabout "getting hit hard by the bad economy" car. A lot of guys who have super nice cars will have to let them go as this economy continues tosuffer. I think more and more cars will be coming up and a little more patience might just be what's required to find the best deal. You posted thatCamaro about two months ago, if I'm correct. Here we are still discussing the car and you seem to be the only serious buyer the seller has found. That isa strong bargaining position from the way I look at it. Again, I am 100% in favor of you buying a car; just maybe keep the search going for a little longer. If the urge is too great and you want to drive somethingthis summer, then go for the Camaro. Bob Jordan
08-11-2009, 12:25 PM
redline kid

buy the ROADRUNNER!!! if the economy is not effecting you i say "go for it" {you only live once}
08-11-2009, 12:26 PM
groggerbug

Mid-lfe crisis - at FORTY??? Ya' kiddin' me, brother?? I say "other" because it's time to get over that mindset right away!! There'sno need to feel any kind of "crisis" at the youthful age of forty, with so much of your life ahead of you! First of all, get your health together, because when you have your health you have everything. Musclecars come and go, but your body is the only one you'llever have, so get it taken care of first. Please don't get fatalistic and assume you better get all your toys now because you're not going to livelong... yes, you could always die next minute, but put your mindset on living forever! And remember - if you can't be happy, right here, right now, withwhat's in front of you right now, then you probably just can't be happy... and a musclecar ain't never gonna' change that. It'll provide avery nice diversion now and then, but it won't make any long-lasting, demonstrable change in your life over the long run. Improving your health will... Andbtw I'm willing to help out on this one. Then after you've taken care of yourself, take care of your home, and your loved ones. That'll be the other thing that will definitely provide lasting,positive benefit. A muscle car ain't worth much if you're not healthy enough or comfortable enough to enjoy it. Greg t'other
08-11-2009, 12:46 PM
camarocrazy2

I'm with Greg on this one, take care of yoursefl first!! Oh that Camaro is nice and the price is right!!!
08-11-2009, 06:12 PM
diecast proto

<img height="20" src="http://www.ezboard.com/image/posticons/pi_freak.gif" width="20" alt="image"> I did n't even reach your other options, once I saw theblack cammy I was crying <img height="16" src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/chevyhoney/sad-smiley-034.gif" width="21" alt="image">, I want it so bad,but I don't have the cash for it , otherwise I will ask you to buy it for me <img height="21" src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/chevyhoney/Handshake.gif" width="44" alt="image">raed
08-11-2009, 06:22 PM
wishihad

I am 45 and still can not afford a mid life anything!! I would grab the roadrunner. I like mopars. OR save for a little while longer, and ya never know whatwill pop up??? The choice is yours, and a dandy choice it is! Any way ya go is lookin good.
08-11-2009, 06:24 PM
1Perry

If I had the money it would be spent on something. Though, not likely all of it. Part of my answer goes not knowing your situation. If it was me I'd shophard for a deal that had to be sold quick to keep someone out of financial problems. You are smart in not buying a car that needs a lot of work. It always cost more to fix them than to buy them fixed (in general). My first thoughts on thePlymouth were the same others had. Why would you turn a GTX into a Road Runner? In the end though, you've done well and I'd suggest you buy yourself a car.
08-11-2009, 07:09 PM
sscont1

No words of wisdom from me Greg, you and the wifey know what you can do and what you want. If I had to bet, I would bet on you grabbing the Camaro, You wantit, but can "you" really do it? <img src="http://www.ezboard.com/image/posticons/pi_hippie.gif" width="20" height="20" alt="image">Later, Steve
08-11-2009, 08:41 PM
MINGOTOY

Buy the Camaro. Just debating which car to buy or whether to buy a car is probably messing with your health and raising your bloodpressure. Buy the Camaro. and also get yourself checked out health wise. Don't want you croaking while driving that beauty! I say the Camaro becauseit's local. If there is a problem, you can go back to the seller. If you have house issues and need the money , you can probably sell the Camaro fasterthan the other one since there are many more Camaro fans out there. and finally , the Camaro is available as a redline. So buy a beater and have someonepaint it black. Goodluck . Maribell
08-12-2009, 01:13 AM
philbert777

Greg,buy the Road Runner......I know I'm going to hear it from the Chevy fans,but the 396 isn't a great motor...Sorry Chevy fans.... Philbert
08-12-2009, 08:19 AM
hotbirdsplanes

<blockquote> NITROJOHNNY wrote: <hr> " ...the words automatic & muscle are a tough mix." </blockquote>This is a big strike against the Camaro. Those two words aren't just a "tough mix." They're mutually exclusive, in my opinion. It's seems you're not going for a trailer princess here and instead intend to drive that sucker. You may want to keep this in mind.
08-12-2009, 03:59 PM
rachaelpachel

HI GREG~ Long time man. Go for the camaro all the way.......(sorry I haven't read all the posts yet, but the pics are all about the Camaro if you ask me, I'll go read upnow......) Happy 40th by the way, I turn 40 next week! :) Rachaelpachel <a target="_blank" href="http://rachaelpachel.blogspot.com/">http://rachaelpachel.blogspot.com/</a>
08-12-2009, 07:05 PM
Charger68

Hands down the Roadrunner Greg, it's a head turner!!! The dough? If ya got it, SPEND IT baby!!!!!!
08-12-2009, 07:28 PM
chickluu

DAVE!!!!!!! YIPPEE~~~~~ <img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v67/chickluu/n660518562_1094885_5152.jpg" alt="image">
08-12-2009, 07:58 PM
spectraflamed

I voted #4 as I recall you are a big time gamer why not hire a contractor (they could use the work) make an absolute killer game/movie room. You mentioned thatthe house might need some repair so kill 2 birds with 1 stone. I am guessing you would spend more time in the game room than the car (but I could be wrong).
08-12-2009, 08:39 PM
99octane

Bought Something!

Ok! After much review and thinking, I was struck at how divided the results were in this poll, which was exactly how I felt. In truth, I didn't want to drop $25k right now, and I like re-making a car the way I want to. But I also love raw power... Today I saw, and purchased, a 1969 Mercury Montego! "WHAT?!?" Never heard of it! I didn't know I wanted one until I saw it. This car is BUILT, it was built by a very talented gear head for the 1/4 mile strip. <img src="http://home.earthlink.net/~99octane/02/Montego-day1-01.jpg" alt="image"> <img src="http://home.earthlink.net/~99octane/02/Montego-day1-02.jpg" alt="image"> <img src="http://home.earthlink.net/~99octane/02/Montego-day1-03a.jpg" alt="image"> <img src="http://home.earthlink.net/~99octane/02/Montego-day1-04.jpg" alt="image"> <img src="http://home.earthlink.net/~99octane/02/Montego-day1-05.jpg" alt="image"> The car's sheet metal is 100% there, no filler. The interior is bare bones - no rug, racing buckets, gagues everywhere. The exhaust is glass packs that open in front of the rear wheels near the differential. There's a high volume electric fuel pump under the rear frame. LOTS of things for me to do before it's a street legal car again, but I'm going to have a ton of fun doing it. I went for a test ride in it ... it's a monster. 575 HP, dyno'd! Drivetrain: 460 CID Engine (That's 7.5 Liters for those doing the metric system) Built C-6 Transmission with all racing parts, 9" Rear end. "Fast" is too weak a word to describe it. Never hit, could use new brightwork and details stuff. But I picked this car up for $8,500 - almost FIFTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper tha nthe Camaro and EIGHTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS less than the Roadrunner. Next summer's gonne be FUN. Not to mention this winter, in my garage. <img src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif"> Thanks to all on Redlines Online for the input and being there as a sounding board for me. Great minds .... About the Poll: Add up choices 3 and 4 and it beats either the Camaro or the Roadrunner. HA! I listed a Chevy and a Mopar, and snuck up and bought a Ford! LOL Greg :)
08-12-2009, 08:55 PM
Capn Hooks

Nice!
08-12-2009, 08:58 PM
jamwood1

I have seen some Montegos before, but never one built up like that one! Very nice, congrats!!
08-12-2009, 09:24 PM
hotbirdsplanes

Proud new Papa. It's a great ride and a great price. Good for you that you came outta this with a gift to yourself. Congrats. <img src="http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/images/smilies/drivingz.gif" alt="image">
08-12-2009, 09:46 PM
MINGOTOY

Congratulations and Happy Birthday. Enjoy the ride. maribell
08-12-2009, 10:06 PM
ravenstang

Welcome to the Mercury Club... I know I have a 68 Cougar, and someone else has one also... so that makes you #3 I believe! Great car... you will enjoy it! Jeff
08-12-2009, 10:15 PM
Jaybird

Nice Pull, Greg! Congratulations! I voted for you to keep the money... one will come along; and you will KNOW it's the one! Great car! Hey=== don't you owe me $200? LOL!!<img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/laugh.gif" alt="image">
08-12-2009, 10:53 PM
McGoose

Nice,unique Merc.Happy cruising!
08-12-2009, 11:40 PM
HD DON

Congrats Greg! Nice wheels! --- Dont get mad my 4th grade teacher had a Green Montego w/vinyl roof...<img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/laugh.gif" alt="image"> Seriously have fun with your new project car and post pics on your progress and when she hits the road....... <img src="http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/d0235822b36e6d510f8a819f9b6534f917806e6.pjpg" alt="image"> DON
08-13-2009, 02:30 PM
sunburninaz

<blockquote> LOTS of things for me to do before it's a street legal car again, but I'm going to have a ton of fun doing it.</blockquote>I see headlights, taillights, windshield wipers, mirrors, you mentioned glass packs so technically it does have mufflers, I'm guessingthere's seat belts (OK, safety harnesses) and it's too old to have to have cats or be smogged (I assume) - what exactly do you need to do to make itstreet-legal? <blockquote> But I picked this car up for $8,500 - almost FIFTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS cheaper tha nthe Camaro and EIGHTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS less than the Roadrunner.</blockquote>I like this number alot better! Frankly, the thought of cutting your life savings in half - to $25K or so - scared the heck out of me (especiallynow that you've joined those of us in the 40+ club). While Bob made the point that, because you would have the car in your possession as a different typeof investment you wouldn't really be out that $25,000, all it would take is some idiot without insurance to run a red light... Yeah, I'm sureyou'd have it insured, but I guarantee that any debate over the valuation of a classic car for an insurance payout is going to be a long drawn out affair. As far as I'm concerned, you reached a great compromise - a car you love without dinging the savings too badly. Congratulations. Doug
08-13-2009, 04:08 PM
groggerbug

Congrats, Greg - that's killer! Now enough of that "I'm over the hill at 40" crazy-talk!!
08-13-2009, 05:48 PM
red spectra

congrats. nice car. you look younger already. women have botox,men have Hot Rods. good medicine.......

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