California...

Pete and Mike..... Whew.... As Chris once said it's 2008 and Mike, Kitty has you dead to rights on the ignorance comment and beyond. Pete your logic ongays is much like Archie Bunker on..... well, EVERYTHING!!!<br><br>Later, Dave

Please forgive me Jamie. You are correct in separating morality from religion. Typically, religious people equate the two and most people are religious. Ididn't realize you weren't. My mistake for jumping to conclusions. Nevertheless, my point was that Hitler did indeed have moral values based on hisinterpretation of Christianity, Simply replace the word "Jews" with "Gays" and apparently 61% of Californians have a similar set of moralstandards, but without the real power to act on them.<br><blockquote> You cannot honestly believe that Hitler thought he was doing his Christian duty by killing millions of Jews.</blockquote>I do think that he believed he was doing his "Christian" duty but I'm not convinced he killed millions of Jews. I used to beconvinced but the more documents I see from that time period the less convinced I become.<br>---------------<br><blockquote> If you feel that Hitler was acting consistently with Christs teachings</blockquote>I quote myself from above: "his interpretation".<br><blockquote> Hitler was attempting to organize a national church under his supreme authority</blockquote>And exactly what church was that Mike? Was it not a bible based Christian church? Or was it Judaism? I forget. Refresh my memory.<br><blockquote> The big issue for you Gramps is this. What basis do you have for viewing the actions of Hitler as morally wrong?</blockquote>The only basis I have so far is that the winners write the history books and they tell us what he supposedly did and didn't do. Well no,that's not entirely true. He participated in and eventually became the government... and government is morally wrong. The sole purpose of government is thecontrol of one group of people by a more powerful group at the expense of the group being controlled. OK. OK. I realize that's not what you are reallyasking. That question doesn't really have anything to do with Hitler but where I get my morals. We've been through this before. I have a new answer foryou because there's no sense in rehashing old answers. My morals have been handed down from generation to generation beginning with my great<font color="#000080"><span style="text-decoration: none;"><span style="font-style: normal;"><span lang="en-US"><font size="2">^{<font color="#000000">216719</font>}</font></span></span></span></font> grandfather for 216,718 generations. His name was Gug and he was what is today calledAustralopithecus. The family stories say the old guy wouldn't hurt a flea unless he was hungry.<br><br>Gramps<br>

can't we just be men about this<br><br><img src="http://members.aol.com/mjaxe1/ebay/v" alt="image"><br><br>sorry too much opportunity here for a joke or 3<br>

I know this because a gay woman told me. So now quote all the facts and studies you want, this comes from the horses mouth (so to speak)

<blockquote> <strong class="quote-title">Redline Whiteline wrote:</strong> <hr> can't we just be men about this <br><br><img alt="image" src="http://members.aol.com/mjaxe1/ebay/v"><br><br> sorry too much opportunity here for a joke or 3 <br></blockquote><p> <strong>Y-M-C-A, it's fun to stay at the Y-M-C-AAAAAAAA!!!!!!!<br><img height="27" src="http://mmb.maverick.to/images/smilies/yahoo.gif" width="42" alt="image"><img height="27" src="http://mmb.maverick.to/images/smilies/yahoo.gif" width="42" alt="image"><img height="27" src="http://mmb.maverick.to/images/smilies/yahoo.gif" width="42" alt="image"><img height="27" src="http://mmb.maverick.to/images/smilies/yahoo.gif" width="42" alt="image"><img height="27" src="http://mmb.maverick.to/images/smilies/yahoo.gif" width="42" alt="image"><img height="27" src="http://mmb.maverick.to/images/smilies/yahoo.gif" width="42" alt="image"><img height="27" src="http://mmb.maverick.to/images/smilies/yahoo.gif" width="42" alt="image"><img height="27" src="http://mmb.maverick.to/images/smilies/yahoo.gif" width="42" alt="image"><img height="27" src="http://mmb.maverick.to/images/smilies/yahoo.gif" width="42" alt="image"></strong></p>

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v67/chickluu/o6.jpg" alt="image">

<blockquote> <strong class="quote-title">GrampaMike46 wrote:</strong> <hr> Please forgive me Jamie. You are correct in separating morality from religion. Typically, religious people equate the two and most people are religious. I didn't realize you weren't. My mistake for jumping to conclusions. Nevertheless, my point was that Hitler did indeed have moral values based on his interpretation of Christianity, Simply replace the word "Jews" with "Gays" and apparently 61% of Californians have a similar set of moral standards, but without the real power to act on them. <br><blockquote> You cannot honestly believe that Hitler thought he was doing his Christian duty by killing millions of Jews. </blockquote>I do think that he believed he was doing his "Christian" duty but I'm not convinced he killed millions of Jews. I used to be convinced but the more documents I see from that time period the less convinced I become. <br> --------------- <br></blockquote><p> I understand what you are saying now, and it makes sense to me. I missed a couple of key words from reading too fast the first time through--I do thatsometimes. <br>On a related subject, I would love it if you could point me in the direction of or share some of the documents you referred to. The reason I ask is, abouttwenty years ago I got to go to the holocaust museum in Israel, and I left there sick to my stomach as it was very powerful. I have heard the rumors, butwould like to read any fact based documents on the subject. I would like any info on it that is available.</p>

<blockquote> <h3 class="quote-title">PeepingScott said:</h3> <hr> I guess you can now marry your sister or brother if you have the desire. Or how about your mother? <br> Dog? Cat? Goat?</blockquote><br><br>So, Mr Jones, tell me exactly where in that quote do you not equate gay marriage (homosexuality) to marrying an animal (ie, bestiality)? I'll leave themother part out of it because that one is just too easy.<br><br>Dan (camarocrazy), you're the one who said <strong>"it's not that I want to stop people from being gay, I want to stop the gay from being inthem."</strong> If that's not what you meant, then you should clarify exactly what you do mean. Are you trying to say that you believe homosexualitycan be fixed, as in through exorcism, where the "demon spirit" of homosexuality can be driven out by reading from a work of fiction?<br><br>You still haven't provided any link to fully cite your aforementioned statement about the alleged lesbian couple beating a child. If you have time to throwout more BS, you have time to research something you already said.<br><br><blockquote> <strong>Jamie added this:</strong> <br> You cannot honestly believe that Hitler thought he was doing his Christian duty by killing millions of Jews.</blockquote><br>No one can say with 100% certainty what he thought, but evidence does point to him suffering from any number of mental illnesses (ironic that he wanted to doaway with such "deficient" people as well, no?) and that he actually did believe he was doing the right thing.<br><br>6pak69 Mike, one thing you are not considering is that you <em>choose</em> your spiritual beliefs. I did not <em>choose</em> to be homosexual. I've beenthis way as far back as I can remember. A good friend of mine from years gone by could not have said it better. He said "I am glad that I was born blackand not homosexual. At least I didn't have to tell my mother." He understood where I'm coming from. He's incurred the wrath of others merelybecause of his race.<br><br>Pete. I understand what you are saying and I know it's only from lack of knowledge. I honestly feel that you are trying to understand our differences andreach a level of understanding from there. I have told very few people this in the past because, frankly, it's none of anyone's damned business, but Ifeel this is a time where it can serve as demonstration of a point.<br><br>As mentioned before, I did not choose to be a lesbian. My sexuality is only a minute part of who and what I am. I have been this way my entire life. I didexperiment once out of curiosity to see if maybe I was missing out on something. I'm leaving details out because for damn sure it's no one'sbusiness. I'll just say it didn't change a thing. That's not the core story for this part, but I felt the need to add it so that you and others maybe able to see things through my eyes.<br><br>Again, I have been "this way" for as long as I can remember. Like many other women (not just lesbians but women in general), I have been the targetof a sex crime. In short, someone tried to rape me. I put him in the hospital for it and he ended up in prison, being found to be a serial rapist. Some of hisvictims were young girls. He was killed by other prisoners.<br><br><blockquote> <h3 class="quote-title">Chevy57 said:</h3> <hr> I know this because a gay woman told me. So now quote all the facts and studies you want, this comes from the horses mouth (so to speak)</blockquote><br>Pete, that is <em>one</em> woman. Certainly you can't believe that one case makes the same true for everyone.

LOL. Ohhhh nooooooo! Hide your families and redlines! The big bad gays are gonna come get em!<br><br>I find this whole thread amusing in a 1950's communist hearings/witch hunt kind of way. Honestly with all the corrupt crap going on the world this is whatpeople are concerned about? Screw the economy, fuel crises, zombie epidemic, rampant crime, and thieves in positions of power. Hell naw that aint important!Imma get my self to fuedin over where two men hide that there salami and whether or not they can get hitched. Yep its good to see we have our priorities inorder.<br><br>Gay's are apparently the "new zombie" of my generation. Ive never seen such paranoia over something since the dead climbed from their graves in1968. Youd swear they were some infectious flesh eating juggernaut hell bent on world domination from how people react to them. Eh....I still fear zombiesmore.<br><br>They're coming to get you Barbara! And your designer clothes too!<br>

Chris said "The fact that some of you have pretended that lines will now be drawn to allow for dogs to marry X, and for X to marry a child, is reallydisgusting-YOU NEED MAJOR HELP. The line is very C. L. E. A. R. in the sand, and NO dogs or kids will ever be wed-AH DUH. The line has been drawn and set, nowhatif's either. NAMBA as a reference, are you effin serious?"<br><br> If you are referring to my comments you have missed the point completely. Heres Daves comment.<br><br> "Yeah, who the hell cares what other people do?? I applaud their right to live how they choose, or are born to live, you clowns need to get a new planetwhere you all think alike. "<br><br><br><br> This is the same level of childish thinking that pervades our culture today. Like an ostrich with its head in the sand. I can't see it so itdoesn't involve me. Well I disagree. What happens behind closed doors has a profound effect on a culture. It may be teaching our kids to care for theplanet, or that beating up their mom is acceptable behavior. The effect of activities happening behind closed doors is going to determine our future.The gaylifestyle is wrong just like a man cheating on his wife is wrong. Religion did not teach me that .So don't blame religion. I have always known it becausemy con-science tells me. Others on this thread have marvelled at the outrage of the pro-gay camp. I marvel too. Why do you scream "TOLERANCE" atpeople who disagree with you. Should you not be tolerant of our views when you demand that we be tolerant of yours? I just don't get it. --- mike<br>