Man beheaded on Manitoba bus

Gun laws seem to work in Canada.Our murder rate is about one quarter compared to Texas.Criminals in Texas know that the next person might be packing. Theymight think twice, however they still do the crime. I believe this was the first beheading on a Greyhound in the history of Canada. If this would have happenedin Texas on a Greyhound with guns instead of a knife, we can only imagine the carnage.The point we(Canadians) are trying to make on this thread is ---try tounderstand what the people on the bus were going through while that murder was happening.And don't pass judgement on them.None of us have ever experiencedanything even close to what those people did. He was eating chunks of the body while he waited for the RCMP to take him down.---mike<br>

Canada:<br>The overall crime rate was 7,518 per 100,000 people, down three per cent from 2005.<br><br>However, the report also found that even though the overall rates decreased, those for more serious violent offences have remained steady from 2005. The rateof violent offences was 951 per 100,000 people in 2006, for a total of 310,307 countrywide.<br><br>More people committed violent offences, such as attempted murder, aggravated assault, assault with a weapon, robbery, kidnapping and forcible confinement. Butthat was offset by a 10-per-cent drop in the national homicide rate, to 1.85 homicides per 100,000 people.<br><br>Texas:<br>2006 Violent crime rate was 516.3 per 100,000 population.<br><br>So..........where the heck do you get off saying it's one quarter that of Texas? You are almost double that of Texas! 951 in 2006 compared to 516 in 2006.Don't try to B.S. I got the Canada info right off a Canadian site that reports it. ( <a target="_blank" href="http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/07/18/crime-stats.html">http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/07/18/crime-stats.html</a> ) and the Texas from anothersite........(<a target="_blank" href="http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/txcrime.htm)">http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/txcrime.htm)</a>

First of all I said murder rate.<br><h3>Violent crime down but homicide rate up</h3><p>In total, about 300,000 violent crimes were reported to police in 2004, the majority of which were common assault. The violent crime rate fell 2%,continuing a general decline since 1992. The violent crime rate was 10% lower than a decade earlier, but 35% higher than 20 years ago.</p><p>Canada's homicide rate rose 12% in 2004 after hitting a 36-year low the year before. Police reported 622 victims of homicide, 73 more than last year.Alberta, British Columbia and Quebec accounted for most of this increase. The rate of 1.9 homicides for every 100,000 population was 5% lower than it was 10years earlier.</p>The murder rate in Texas in 2004 was 6.2 per 100,000 people. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=169 Not quite one quarter butpretty close. Next we would have to consider the number of people in jail in Texas compared to Canada. Would you like to do that ??---mike.<br><br>

Mike.........<br>You are singling out "homicide" only. why? Because it fits your argument? If you get stabbed and live........it's NOT a homicide. Do you feel allcozy and safe because of that? Also, you need to look at the median income in both places. It's a well known fact that the lower the income, the higher therate. I have'nt looked it up yet but I would wager that Texas has alot more poverty level folks than Canada does. Let your government do it all foryou........watch what happens. You are powerless. Germany did the same thing in the 1930's. What happened there? good luck. I like to have the same poweras the sorry bastard that kicks down my door instead of pleading with him to leave me and my family alone. Maybe it's just me. I wish that they weren'tnecessary but they are. What if you were "next" on that bus? What would you do? Spit at him? Good luck.

This does not just happen in Canada.<br><br><a title="Greece Decapitation" target="_blank" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7539944.stm"></a><a title="" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7539944.stm"></a><a title="" target="_blank" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7539944.stm">Greece Decapitation</a><br>

I didnt single out homicide. Thats what we were talking about to start with. So I kept on track.You have screwed up the statistics completely.Then changed thesubject to include violent crimes. Like I said,you are going to be in trouble if you try to defend the crime rate in Texas. I did not want to focus on thatanyways. I wanted to stick with the topic surrounding the folks on the bus.---mike<br>

<blockquote> <strong class="quote-title">Trolleydodger wrote:</strong> <hr> This does not just happen in Canada. <br><br><a title="Greece Decapitation" target="_blank" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7539944.stm"></a><a title="" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7539944.stm"></a><a title="" target="_blank" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7539944.stm">Greece Decapitation</a> <br></blockquote><p> Thats incredible. Could it be a copycat already??---mike<br></p>

Where's my head eh??<br><br>Later, Dave

I don't remember any beheadings in Texas. Can someone help me out?

<blockquote> <strong class="quote-title">Iamredliner wrote:</strong> <hr> I don't remember any beheadings in Texas. Can someone help me out?</blockquote><p> Here ya go</p><p><a title="" target="_blank" href="http://www.crimezzz.net/serialkillers/T/TEXAS_DECAPITATION_murders.php">Houston, Texas 1979</a><br></p><p><a title="" target="_blank" href="http://www.cnn.com/US/9806/08/texas.decapitation/">Jasper, Texas 1998</a></p><p><br></p>

I stand corrected. Didn't remember those. Thanks. All the more reason for me to protect myself from these folks. I'll keep my guns, thankyou.

<blockquote> <strong class="quote-title">Charger68 wrote:</strong> <hr> Where's my head eh?? <br><br> Later, Dave</blockquote><p> In the same place it usually is. Where the sun don't shine.---mike<br></p>

Scary business! That guy is completely off his rocker! They say that while he was being detained in the bus he was walking around with the head and showing itto the passengers who were outside as well as the police! I mean who the hell does that to another human being? Talk about a bunch of repressed issues goingon! Holy Smokes!<br><br>I also read that he actually ate some pieces of kid, can anyone from Canada confirm this? It's just almost too bizarre to believe!

<blockquote> <blockquote> <div> <blockquote> <strong class="quote-title"><strong class="quote-title">Charger68 wrote:</strong></strong> <hr> Where's my head eh?? <br><br> Later, Dave </blockquote> <p>In the same place it usually is. Where the sun don't shine.---mike <br></p> </div> <br></blockquote> </blockquote>Oh Dave you walked right into that one<img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/laugh.gif" alt="image"><br><br> <blockquote> <strong class="quote-title"><strong class="quote-title">Charger68 wrote:</strong></strong> <hr> Where's my head eh?? <br><br> Later, Dave </blockquote> <p>In the same place it usually is. Where the sun don't shine.---mike <br></p>

<blockquote> Someones been watching way too many Jackie Chan movies.There are very few people who have the skill to challenge a man with a knife and live to tell about it.. Or are you implying that a knife wound doesn't hurt as much as a bullet wound??---mike</blockquote>It's called training in the USMC brother no bulls**t Jackie Chan moves just hand to hand combat. Done deal.<br><br>Pete

Oh and Mike if it were a gun I'd duck like everyone else. The fact that it was a knife makes it an easy to disarm him.

It wouldn't be the first time, i had to give the boy SOMETHING to live for!!!<br><br>Later, Dave

<blockquote> The fact that it was a knife makes it an easy to disarm him.</blockquote>Uh, huh...<br><br><a target="_blank" href="http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/messagetopic.asp?p=5749923">Police Officer after Knife Fight</a><br><br>(Caution - may be viewed as somewhat graphic)<br><br>Doug

I guess with his "skills" he should've shot him. lol

<img height="20" src="http://www.ezboard.com/image/posticons/pi_freak.gif" width="20" alt="image"> That looks like a straight razor did thatdamage....<img height="20" src="http://www.ezboard.com/image/posticons/pi_freak.gif" width="20" alt="image"><p><br></p>

If you read further........photos are real, story is false. It wasn't a cop in a knife fight. Looks like it was a fight between inmates in a prison.<br><br><a title="http://www.snopes.com/photos/gruesome/kunsan.asp" target="_blank" href="http://www.snopes.com/photos/gruesome/kunsan.asp">http://www.snopes.com/photos/gruesome/kunsan.asp</a><br><br><br><br>

Actually Andrea, it doesn't say that. Snopes says that the story about the victim being an officer in the Air Force is inaccurate. It goes on to say thatthe pictures were used by law enforcement for training purposes - <em>possibly</em> documenting the aftermath of a fight between inmates. This was forwardedto me a long time ago by a police officer so I never doubted the story. Who knows...<br><br>The point I was trying to make is that Pete seems to feel that anyone on the bus could've walked up to the guy and disarmed him. It simply is not thatsimple...<br><br>Doug

Actually Doug,......that's why I said "looks".......not "definitely is". <br><br>I don't doubt it's not easy to go after someone with a knife, I'm with ya on that! That SUCKS what happened, and I really don't think any ofus will know what we're going to do in that situation unless it happens.<br><br><br><br>

You're right, you did say "looks". But you also said that it wasn't a cop in a knife fight and Snopes didn't indicate that - it saidthat it wasn't an Air Force officer. Like I said, it was sent to me by a cop so I just always took the story for granted. There's a good chance thatit was inmates because - at least judging by the officers I know - a cop would've taken someone with a knife down by gun or taser. For the most part, copsare damned if they do and damned if they don't. Shoot him and it's "excessive force", tase him and they get sued, try to deal with a lunaticwith a knife - ? As I said - "who knows".<br><br>OK, now I'm sending myself to the corner for bickering...<br><br>Still love ya,<br><br>Doug

<blockquote> <strong class="quote-title">CHEVY57 wrote:</strong> <hr> Oh and Mike if it were a gun I'd duck like everyone else. The fact that it was a knife makes it an easy to disarm him.</blockquote><p> The only reason you would go against the maniac is that your Marine corps training has given you the skills necessary to overwhelm him. If a gun wasinvolved you would leave the bus. Is that correct? Therefore it is not a matter of courage for you is it? You know you could take down the killer if he'sarmed with a knife. So the people on the bus who did not have the military training that you have would not have had a chance against the killer with a knifebecause they were not trained in hand to hand combat. Therefore they were wise to leave the bus in the face of certain death.Just like you would have if youwere facing a gun. Especially if the killer was already swinging the head of his victim in the air and there was no one else in danger.Sounds logical tome...mike<br></p>

When I'm King of America, I will assign Pete to be one of my bodyguards...<br>the movement has started...<img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/pimp.gif" alt="image"><br><br><br>Thinking about this incident, I believe that if there were a few men on board, that they should have grouped together and attacked the guy. To flee off thebus seems natural for survival, but with some 30+ passengers on board, surely a few men were available to do what needed to be done. I'm guessing therewere no fearless men like Pete on the bus. Someone to make a difference. I believe that Pete would have been one to make a difference, which is admirable. Seems like a declining number of folks in that department. Maybe the male passengers were on the French side...<img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/eyes.gif" alt="image"><br><br><br><br><br><br><img src="http://www.ezboard.com/image/posticons/pi_freak.gif" alt="image"><br>

Can I be your spin doctor Scott---mike<br>

Mike,<br>Then how about two or three people at once jumping him?

LOL!<br><br>I don't know what all this is leading to.<br><br>Tim was asleep...and therefore its' easy to assume,a pretty easy victim, when he was initially stabbed during a horrendous attack. He stabbed 40 or 50times, and was in all likely hood ,dead before most there even knew what was going on.<br><br>No one else on the bus was physically hurt....mentally,emotionally,psycologically (sp?) might be a different story...so in that regard,everyone did the rightthing,and did what could be done in that particular situation. All the authorities agree on that point.<br><br>F~<br><br>

<blockquote> <strong class="quote-title">CHEVY57 wrote:</strong> <hr> Mike, <br> Then how about two or three people at once jumping him?</blockquote><p> Because the narrow aisle allows for single file only. This is an excellent defensive position for an inferior force. The killer can only be attacked by oneperson at a time. Did you see the movie "300"? BTW I completely agree with your original statement that people in our society will often stand by anddo nothing to help a fellow human being who is being mugged. This is disgraceful. However in this case I believe the facts will show that the people on the busdid the best they could do under horrific circumstances. Our newspaper here in Winnipeg reported that our U.S neighbors had been pointing accusing fingers atthe people on the bus in the aftermath of the killing for not helping the victim. When the issue came up on this thread I felt that it was important to defendthese people.I see that other Canadian RLOLers felt the same way.---mike<br></p>

The only way to win that fight with him inside a bus ie closed area is to shoot him you would not be able to over power him with out being stabbed yourself itseasy for people to say they should of done this our that our i would of done this our that, but until your in a situation like that you cant speculate.

Exactly, unless you are there....... What about the two planes that hit the towers? LOTS of people on board and I would be the word would have gotten aroundpretty quickly what was about to happen, especially the second plane that could already seeing burning tower one, but who is going to do it, where is yourleader? All you have is a scared pack in panic mode.<br><br>The ones who took the plane down in Pennsylvania knew what they were up against, had some decision makes and reacted, but that is making the decision everyonewill die and they had time to think it ut, unlike this bus incident.<br><br>Later, Dave

Not sure why "the" country this happened in has anything to do with it, but whatever.<br><br>I agree, most people would much rather flee than fight. I would bet the numbers would be very high, 95% plus of the population. The other 5% are the ones whoare enlisted and serving for that 95% populous, they're in the military, they're your local police, they fight fires, etc. They/we aren't wiredright. You see this mass exodus from the bus as noble, I see a bunch of gamblers who got lucky the killer was just to high/dumb to read the E X I T signs onthe windows of the bus, otherwise, he's one pull of a handle and an entire menu of sheep standing around in shock-n-terror. While you were running for thedoor, some others would have observed a man, bent over-VERY BUSY with a knife. Some of us, would think to ourselves, "hey, he's busy, he's got hisback to me, and I don't want to take the "chance" of having a face to face, this is TO EASY to pass on." Besides chics dig scars anyway.Sure, you might get cut, but then again, you might just snap the neck of a Chinese Immigrant, who was under the influence of ecstasy, and was stabbing a youngman to death. Killing an innocent, you need more to work with here? I wonder what it would take to get that 95% involved? Then again, I don't care either.I already know the deal, and it's got nothing to do with machismo, or what karate kid movie you've seen, it's just "a" desire within.Sure, training of any sorts-aids, but without the desire, your never going to be very good with or without that training. Doesn't make anyone better thananother, it just means that we're not all wired alike. And be very thankful for that too. <br><br>(Edit for spelling, damnit Jim)

I ask this to all that have responded, If you saw a car on fire and people trapped inside, would you then risk harm to yourself to help?<br>I would, and I really don't see the difference. As Chris stated you have to have the desire to want to help. Being in the right place at the RIGHT time forus, is the same as being in the right place at the WRONG time for them.<br><br>My2Sense

I think its really hard to know how I would react if something like this happened in front of me. I hope to never experience it. To those who have no doubt intheir minds..you will do something...kudos to you...( I want Pete on my side too! ) but I still don't know in that split second..do you save yourself orothers...I guess it depends on the circumstances...how quickly you can access the situation and the surrounding you are in (ex...are you boxed in..does he havea knife at your throat..or on a woman or baby..etc). I did chase after a theif once who came into our office to steal my coworkers purse and brandished a knifewhen he was caught in the act...he took off running..and almost our entire office chased him..out of the office into the streets..and down to a park about ablock away...until me and this guy caught up to him and tackled the guy. It was a split second decision to chase him when he took off..I didn't think abouthis knife..I was mad and just wanted to catch the bozo.<br><br>Ricky Yo

Ricky,<br> I salute you on helping and am glad you got the punk and weren't hurt.<br>Pete

I haven't had much experience in life or death split second decisions, but I did have a situation that was kind of similar, back in the 70's a group ofus were at a friends house, just hanging out, listening to music, and smoking a dube, when an guy we knew stopped by with his new dog that he had just adoptedat the dog pound. The guy owned a speed shop that was out in the boondocks, it had been broken into several times, so he wanted a "guard" dog towatch the place at night. The dog was a huge male St. Bernard, the pound called him dangerous and was going to destroy him, but they let this guy adopt himinstead. The guy and his dog came into the house, and after a short while, he said he needed to use the bathroom, and excused himself, while he was on the can,the dog, (his name was king but should have been Kujo) walked into the kitchen and started rooting in the trash can, my best friends wife, Pam said "kingget out of that trash" the dog looked up and started growling, Pam looked terrified, and started backing up, the dog lunged at her knocking her down onher back, pouncing on her and mangeling her arm that she was trying to shield her face with, I looked at her husband, and he was frozen, wide eyed, andstunned, without thinking, I dove on the dogs back, and put a choke hold on it, he was very strong, but I was able to control him, while yelling for the owner,he finally came running out, put a leash on the dog, and took him away, we took Pam to the emergency room, where she needed over 80 stitches to close herwounds.<br>My point is that if you had asked her husband what he would do if a huge dog attacked his wife, I'm sure he would not have said, I'd sit there, unableto move, while somebody else saved her. You just don't know for sure what you will do until it happens. Michael

That is a very cool story, glad it worked out. and you're right it's kind of like a fire drill and practicing what to do. but then when there is a firethe drill is forgotten and people just run like hell anyway.<br><br>Pete

<blockquote> it's kind of like a fire drill and practicing what to do. but then when there is a fire the drill is forgotten and people just run like hell anyway.</blockquote><font color="#0000FF" size="4">Like child labour too. You practice for months learning how to breathe properly but when the time comes thetechniques are forgotten and you just swear and scream for drugs! <img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/laugh.gif" alt="image"><br><br><br>~Karen</font><br>