Work Layoffs...

I agree! And the U.S. WOULD and has stood up to China. Just think back a few years when Clinton sent 5 Battleships and Carriers to the waters off Taiwan to thwart a possible Chinese invasion there. That wasn't exactly going after some petty dictator like Saddam, that was a direct confrontation of a major superpower who DOES have nukes. China backed off. Taiwan technically is a province of China, but has aspirations of becoming an independant democracy of its own, or at least have autonomy within China.

Havent read all the posts so I hope I dont repeat anyone,

Hate to say it but the bailout but they worked - almost all the banks that got it are making billions again in profits and not hiring all those people they let go, mainly because everyone is so scared to lose their job that they are working harder,longer and their productivity is way up so now reason to hire anyone. Keep the people scared and you can make a huge profit. I find it sick that they are crying for bailouts and firing thousands and thousands of people and when they back on their feet barley any rehires. So now they get saved from their stupid mistakes, blame it on the lower teir workers and now are raking it in. In New York alot of these companies had gotten big tax breaks, millions and tens of millions, for keeping work in the city and then they laid everyone off and no give backs on the tax breaks. Citi Bank alone laid off 50,000 workers all over the country and I havent heard anyone sauin give back the tax breaks.

As for our debt and China, they need us as much as we need them. If our economy falls so does theirs. We are the biggest buyer of their merchindise out there. And they know it. But the people in power are afraid to call China to the carpet on alot of issues because they are needing China more now than ever.

Just gets me sick just thinking about this crap.I live in a state where they raised spending this year. By like 3 bilion and even though that is only like 3% how can you ask us to budget our money but they cant come close to doing it themselves?

Excellent point made about China needing the west and how we need them NOW!
If we had any forsight say 20 years ago we would still be manufacturing most of our goods here and buying products that are not made in China.
The tide needs to shift where we still manufacture more of our product here for our own use.
I have been in Manufacturing my whole life as a Tool and Die Maker and Engineer and it sickens me how things have changed and in my opinion not for the better.
Consumers need to support our local economy by buying local!

[QUOTE=customdave;365724]Hey Dan. Where do you work? I was briefly an ice cream driver and had all the Ben and Jerry's I wanted. I'm surprized I didn't weigh 400lbs when I worked there.lol.
Dave.[/QUOTE]

I work at Rite Aid. Beer and Ice cream yummy!! Can I get you some kleenex with that runny nose and ice cream!! Would you like some ointment with that beer!!

[QUOTE=chargerstv;366296]Excellent point made about China needing the west and how we need them NOW!
If we had any forsight say 20 years ago we would still be manufacturing most of our goods here and buying products that are not made in China.
The tide needs to shift where we still manufacture more of our product here for our own use.
I have been in Manufacturing my whole life as a Tool and Die Maker and Engineer and it sickens me how things have changed and in my opinion not for the better.
Consumers need to support our local economy by buying local![/QUOTE]

Buy American, it's a start.

[QUOTE=chargerstv;366296]Excellent point made about China needing the west and how we need them NOW!
If we had any forsight say 20 years ago we would still be manufacturing most of our goods here and buying products that are not made in China.
The tide needs to shift where we still manufacture more of our product here for our own use.
I have been in Manufacturing my whole life as a Tool and Die Maker and Engineer and it sickens me how things have changed and in my opinion not for the better.
Consumers need to support our local economy by buying local![/QUOTE]

That's a nice idea, but we all know that it costs more. Who is going to pay for it? Are you willing to accept less profit so you can pay your employees what they think they deserve (plus all of the taxes and healthcare costs) or are you going to pass on those costs to the buyer? When you do that, the buyer will choose otherwise.

Steve,
The buyers have already chosen! But your point is well taken...
When you have high wages, and Union involvement, kiss it all to go overseas...
The US was once a export powerhouse, but not anymore, and it never will be again, unless we abolish those silly nonsensical child labor laws!!!:sneaky2:

[QUOTE=sverrefehn;366514]That's a nice idea, but we all know that it costs more. Who is going to pay for it? Are you willing to accept less profit so you can pay your employees what they think they deserve (plus all of the taxes and healthcare costs) or are you going to pass on those costs to the buyer? When you do that, the buyer will choose otherwise.[/QUOTE]


And do we actually make everything in the US that we need? I can remember when out shopping that I can find most of what I buy that had an American equivilent even if it was more. I also do shop in other supermarkets other than walmart and have no problem paying more for most things, but have you compared the price difference on some things. I have kids and buy a package of just cookies and they cost almost twice in a supermarket other than walmart.It isnt just things made in other countries walmart is helping to make this country a country who only will pay the lowest prices which in turn equal lower labor but everything outside of walmrt is much too expensive to live on a walmart salary. I wonder when they will get into oil and electricity so my rates go down.

[QUOTE=PeepingScott;366522]Steve,
The buyers have already chosen! But your point is well taken...
When you have high wages, and Union involvement, kiss it all to go overseas...
The US was once a export powerhouse, but not anymore, and it never will be again, unless we abolish those silly nonsensical child labor laws!!!:sneaky2:[/QUOTE]

Scott you cant blame unions for all of these products. Unions have protected jobs and living wages. Are they perfect HELL NO, but prices of products were rising and wages werent. Does anyone think that prices today wouldnt be this high if there were never a union? Or we would have some of the benefits we have either? I have to say my union has kept my job in a company that would lay thousands off, still make tons of profir and wouldnt lower rates anyway. You can see this in Banks. They were bleeding money with bad investments which were made by non union workers and got goverment bailouts, laid hundred of thousands off and indirectly laying thousands of others off as well. And now that they are flush are our rates going down? Have your atm fees,lates fees,over draft fees or anything at the banks gone down? They havent rehired the hundred of thousand of people back, but rates and profits continue in unimaginable amounts.

That's a nice idea, but we all know that it costs more. Who is going to pay for it? Are you willing to accept less profit so you can pay your employees what they think they deserve (plus all of the taxes and healthcare costs) or are you going to pass on those costs to the buyer? When you do that, the buyer will choose otherwise.

Accepting less profit is one way. The reason companies manufacture products overseas is to increase profits.
However if we become a service type of economy do you expect the wages to be more than minimum wage?
If we want to continue to be part of the 8 wealthiest nations in the world then we need to manufacture products because that is how we got there in the first place.

I don't use ATM's, or ever overdraft, or have late fees. I'm not perfect, but I try to manage my money, unlike our government...
I'm a vested Teamster and am glad to be out of it...high wages, great benefits, which drove our selling products sky high, and we lost market share to non union companies...this happens all the time...I remember going on strike over an "unfair" contract according to our union hack, fat ass Lincoln driving fat cat loving us paying our Union dues POS...we drank the Union Kool Aid and voted to strike, then two weeks after striking settled on the exact same contract originally offered. Two weeks on strike without any pay. Our Union reps got their pay and fat cat allowances...I still remember his weezing and his gut...on our dime...
That incident taught me to think for myself, and also convinced me that Unions were just as my dad told me, a neccessary evil...it's an evil I want no part of, thank you...
Like I said though, I'm a vested Teamster...it's not like I'm some clone on the outside babbling a bunch of pap trying to aggravate like Dave Thompson...
With falling pay, and more layoffs, people will continue to shop at WalMart and grocery stores like WinCo, offering items you need for less money...
I used to be pro North American, but when our automakers started dropping the ball on quality (UNIONS), I had to move to purchase Japanese cars, something I never contemplated doing so...better product, better value, and pride in craftsmanship and quality...the Big 3 are learning from their mistakes, but it could be too little, too late...until they got a government bailout...GAG...more tax dollars protecting Unions, and a particular voting block...
bitter? you bet...

[QUOTE=PeepingScott;366533]

1)...we drank the Union Kool Aid and voted to strike,

2)...it's not like I'm some clone on the outside babbling a bunch of pap trying to aggravate like Dave Thompson...[/QUOTE]


1)...AHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAH
THAT is funny!!!

2)...Haven't heard from Dave since the boat left the YUKU dock and everything got moved over here.


Unions had their place back in the day, but I'm mixed on whether or not there is need for them anymore. Maybe in some cases. Wal-Mart employees seem to be getting fleeced, and a union to Wal-Mart is like a Cross to a vampire.

Andy

I remember a story, perhaps somebody can confirm the wording and source, but to paraphrase:

During the Depression, FDR was brought before a works project, where the foreman showed off a new steamshovel. "This machine can do the work of sixty men!", the foreman proudly exclaimed.

"Well then," FDR replied, "Leave it and hire sixty men."

[QUOTE=Phildirt;366579]I remember a story, perhaps somebody can confirm the wording and source, but to paraphrase:

During the Depression, FDR was brought before a works project, where the foreman showed off a new steamshovel. "This machine can do the work of sixty men!", the foreman proudly exclaimed.

"Well then," FDR replied, "Leave it and hire sixty men."[/QUOTE]


That would be great but technology is onr of the biggest killer of jobs.I person on a machine doing the job of 50. After the machine is paid off I wonder why the prices dont go down? Because as long as the compamy is making money they will raise prices or even better keep the price the same and give you less, like food companies are doing right now. This is just as bad as raising prices. Scott I know unions are as bad as the compaines that they supossedly fight against and they usually in bed with them but they are usually on our side. I think that these companies would do what they want without a union. And those non union people doing union work arent compensated or protected as well. You know in NYC there are people dying on the job alot recently and almost everyone, over 90%, are non union workers. Non Union works are doing the exact same job as union workers but are dying alot more, I am in CWA (COMMUNICATION WORKERS OF AMERICA) and I got into the brownstones and smaller buildings and it is so different than going into these big buildings. It is much more unsafe. They cut so many corners on saftey that I usually am nervous. They are alot more unsafe. I still think that unions are needed in all job that have a saftey issue. I wish they werent filled with fat cats and bums but I wish that about our government too.

Just for arguement.....someone has to build the machine.

25 years ago, Japan was going to take over the U.S. That didn't happen. After a recent experience I have far less concerns over China also. (Not that it changed my mind about buying things made in the USA, even if for more any time I can).

We made a certain product for decades. Someone in China decided to make the same thing (it was only 1 on many products we made). They were of course able to way under price us. Being technology as opposed to labor driven though, we have been able to come up with all sorts of new products. We decided to "partner" with the Chinese company. They would make this product for us and we would help them with technology.

There is another product we make that is as easy to make but the end product is fairly labor intensive. You can't just make it and sell it. It takes some "finishing". Well we can sell far more of this than we can produce. We run 24 hours 7 days a week and we still can't keep up. We decided to install the equipment to produce this in China. We build it and go over and make sure it makes the stuff. Being new equipment, we can actually make it better in China. (some of our equipment is 60 years old).

Two problems. Certain companies we sell to in Japan (a nice chunk of sales) wants nothing to do with it because it's made in China. Also, we are having a very hard time getting them to make it at all now in China. It's too much work. They can make the "easy" stuff all day and be happy. They have no desire to do the labor intensive stuff. This surprised me as I thought this was supposed to be their thing.

We are back to (last I heard) trying to figure out how to increase our production here.