1970 Olds 442 - Sports/Post Coupe vs Holiday/Hardtop - Overheating problem solved - Thanks Everyone!

[QUOTE=68Mustanger;460232]Awesome find Homie! I know you always wanted another. Great trade off for the Vette. You should cruise it up here for Cruise Nite on Friday, then continue on to Reno for Hot August Nights.
[URL]http://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/index.php[/URL]
Congrats!![/QUOTE]

Homie,

I'm not going to Hot August Nights this year...too much on my plate.

Let's hook up soon!

[QUOTE=hawkeyejac;460055]Congratulations Johnnny!!! I know that you have been looking for the right Olds 442 to come along and that beauty surely fits the bill.

As awesome and killer as it is, I have only one question.

Where are the Redlines on the tires? I think I may have a set of 60 series with Redlines lying in the back of my garage.
I will check the size and call you tonight.

LOL!
Jack[/QUOTE]



Hey Jack, and Shaker,

The '70 442 didn't come with redline tires...at least the real one LOL ...I'll take those tires for my '66 GT Stang vert as they were original tires on that car.

Thanks for gifting me the redline tires...gives you a reason to come out to CA.


Everyone else,

Thanks for the props!

ahhh I see.... I'm watch'n re-runs of Bewitched and noticing all the Muscle cars that Darren was cruis'n around in, with redline'd Tires...Hmm I still think it'll look good on 'em...If i ever Visit the states(am in Melbourne Australia), i wanna "spin in it" as well.If U don't mind.

Super nice. I've always been an Olds fan as my first car was a 68 Cutlass Supreme.

Congratulations Mr Lee. That thing is BAD to the Bone. I guess you must have dumped the Mercedes to get that Sweet ride. Well it did have a broken motor mount so it was time. Lol.

Jeff

We'll I've been spending alot of time and money getting the bugs worked out on the car...It had Flex - a - lite dual electric fans and one was seized so it was running 220 in traffic and 205 on the freeway. The thermostat calls for 185... I changed the thermostat and installed a 16 1/2" flex fan however it is missing the fan shroud and I ordered one from Year one that should be here in a few days....meanwhile it is running 200 on the freeway and 215 in traffic.

The engine has a mild cam...I also ordered a high flow waterpump and am fairly certain that after I install the high flow waterpump and fan shroud it will run at 190-205 in all driving.

My question is 190-205 acceptable and how hot can she go before I risk overheating the engine?

Any input will help.

Thanks in advance.


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Shaker,

If you come to the states I'll take you for a ride.

Perry,

Thanks for the props...this is my 3rd Cutlass.

Jeff,

I have to keep the Benz as it is my daily driver and has AC and 300HP to keep up with the old schools...unfortunately she is displaced in the drive way because the Old Schools are parked in the garage LOL.

Not sure on the old school 442.I have a 2000 svt cobra and the temp runs around 200 I think around 250 will cause engine damage.again not sure of engine damage temp but 200 is the norm on mine.hope it helps

The fan shroud is going to make all the difference in the world. 190-205 isn't going to hurt anything for now. I have no idea exactly how hot you can get before damaging something but I do know you don't want to find out. ;)

Just take it easy until you get the shroud hooked up. You are actually doing really well with your temps without the shroud.

Thundercat and Perry thanks for chiming in.
The high flow waterpump came in today and I am expecting the shroud by Thursday.
I'll update on progress as I go.

Thanks again!

Well I had a 80 chevy pick up 9" lift and a tweeked 350 (I did some of the mods), when I got it, it only had the factory fan and would hit 230-240 and I'd have to shut it down in fear of damage. I installed a dual flex- a- light and it would run all day at 180-185! I wouldn't take it on the hwy, because I tried it once, in the 2 miles exit to exit got it up to speed - 70mph, it sucked up 4gals of gas, I actually saw the gas gauge dropping!!

My dad my thinks that the high flow water pump may be a waste of time due to the fact that it may make the water flow too fast through the radiator not allowing it the proper time to cool. Next time the car is warm, you should also check the radiator for clogs by carefully using your hand to check for cooler spots on the radiator fins. Any cooler spots will indicate a clog in the radiator. Also, 190-205 is probably reasonable in traffic.

Make sure the proper coolant mixture is in there and fresh. I would go with a larger radiator if you can mount one in there. And the most important thing is that there are no clogs like zracer says.

Not real sure about the hi-flow pump without a larger radiator.

you seem to be on the right track. Just cruise until you get it figured out.

Smoking score too...btw!

[B]FE Big Block Fords, (390, 427, 428) don't even start to breathe, until around 210 degrees, lol............[/B]

[B]I'm running a Flow-Kooler aluminum water pump, stock Big Block FoMoCo 3 row core radiator, and a 160 degree T-stat on my stroker small block Ford in my '68 Ranchero GT, and no matter how hard i try, it will not go over 190, even on 100 degree days in L.A........[/B]

[B]Olds V-8's were designed to run where you're at now, getting it to run a bit cooler is only better.............[/B]

[B]I've had a few Oldsmobiles, and the '66 442 i had always ran around 200, never gave it a second thought.........[/B]

[B]Start to worry when you're running around 225-240............[/B]

[B]Sweet car, '70 is one of my fav years for 442's, i'd like to find a cherry '73 Hurst Olds myself.......[/B]

[QUOTE=redlinejohnny6872;461317][B]FE Big Block Fords, (390, 427, 428) don't even start to breathe, until around 210 degrees, lol............[/B]

[B]I'm running a Flow-Kooler aluminum water pump, stock Big Block FoMoCo 3 row core radiator, and a 160 degree T-stat on my stroker small block Ford in my '68 Ranchero GT, and no matter how hard i try, it will not go over 190, even on 100 degree days in L.A........[/B]

[B]Olds V-8's were designed to run where you're at now, getting it to run a bit cooler is only better.............[/B]

[B]I've had a few Oldsmobiles, and the '66 442 i had always ran around 200, never gave it a second thought.........[/B]

[B]Start to worry when you're running around 225-240............[/B]

[B]Sweet car, '70 is one of my fav years for 442's, i'd like to find a cherry '73 Hurst Olds myself.......[/B][/QUOTE]


Johnny,

Thanks for your input...very good points you make.

The radiator is 4 row and the high flow waterpump goes in today with new upper and lower hoses.

Thursday the shroud arrives and that should be the last detail to get this beast to run cool.

I appreciate your advice as always.


Zracer, Jeff and Joshua,

Excellent input as well...you guys are great!

Homie, the Stang did that when I first got it and it was missing the shroud. That to me will make a big difference. I also took the radiator in and had it boiled out. No problem since, even in stop and go traffic at 105, I roasted with no a/c, but the car didn't. As far as high volume water pump, I think it might do like a Bronco motor I had with a high volume oil pump, it pumped too much, too fast! Too much, too fast does not allow the water in the radiator to cool. A good flex fan and shroud, maybe a boil out and you should be good!
Good luck! Keith

Just stay on roads with no traffic and go really fast......The faster you go the better you will keep her air cooled.:D

I agree with the others, a fan shroud will make a big diffrence helping the fan to pull air thru the rad. Also a high flow water pump may move the coolant too fast thru the block, not allowing enough time to asorb the heat from the engine.

From a diagnostics approach: I would wait and install the shroud first to see if it does the trick for you. If it does the trick - then you saved yourself from installing the high flow waterpump (new hoses would probably be good, though).

My thought is: If you've got the waterpump installed and the shroud and have the same numbers you're running now, you may feel there is another issue (when there may not be) and tear into it further.

Homie, read though your posts some more and noticed you had head gaskets put in. Were they put in the right way?? Did all the holes match up? If your still having problems with it you might have one in backwards covering up one of the water jackets preventing the water to flow though. Just a thought!
TTYL

Goldvrx, Bandito and Lobo,

Thanks for your input.

Homie,

I thought about the head gaskets being installed incorrectly and causing the car to run hot...that is a worse case scenario and I don't think that is the problem but thanks for mentioning that.

The high flow water pump and new upper and lower hoses has been installed and the car runs 3-5 degrees cooler...The fan shroud , stock fan blade and stock fan clutch should arrive tomorrow...I am also installing an electric pusher fan in frt of the rad...all of the above should solve my heating problem.

I will update as I go.

Thanks for all the input.

You guys rock!

Johnny,
What a stunning car. Black with Gold is my favorite color combo for the car and it is a rare Post model to boot. Great car!

Mark

[QUOTE=azfletch;461696]Johnny,
What a stunning car. Black with Gold is my favorite color combo for the car and [COLOR=blue][B]it is a rare Post model to boot.[/B][/COLOR] Great car!

Mark[/QUOTE]


Mark,

Thanks for the good words on the 442...what are you referring to when you say "rare Post model"?

Post model is a car with [U]window posts[/U] on doors & on rear side windows. Many 442 came w/o posts. I am sure you will see what you have if you surf 442's on eBay Motors.

Wow ...thanks to Mark(AZFletch) and Michael (ziurtoys)I found out that my 442 is rarer than I thought . It is a sports coupe (Post coupe) and here are the production numbers of all body types for 442's manufactured in 1970:

[B]1970 442 Body Types[/B]

[COLOR=blue]Sports Coupe (Post Coupe) 1,688[/COLOR]
Holiday Coupe 14,709
convertibles 2,933

[B]Total 19,330[/B]

There are less sport coupes (post coupes) then convertibles.

Here is some info I picked up on the classic Olds web site re: Sport Coupes (Post coupes ):


[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]The sport coupe has the "post" between the front and rear side windows even when the windows are down, and they have a continuation of the door that frames the window area. The ffice:smarttags" /><ST1:place w:st="on">Holiday</ST1:place> does not, they have "frameless" windows.ffice:office" /><O:p></O:p>[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]<O:p> </O:p>[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]a post coupe has 34477 in the VIN and a hardtop has 34487...<O:p></O:p>[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]<O:p> </O:p>[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]<O:p> </O:p>[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]if the vin starts 34477 it's a sports coupe, which is rarer, and also w/o knowing the VINif you were to have the front and rear windows down, you could not pass your arm from front to rear because there's a body post in the way. Sports coupes are also called post coupes due to that post.<O:p></O:p>[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]<O:p> </O:p>[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]<O:p> </O:p>[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]<O:p> </O:p>[/FONT][/COLOR]
[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=blue]And the post coupe is the lightest model, too, so performance-wise, it has more potential than any other model. [/COLOR][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=blue]The easiest way to remember that is ironic: The more metal you see, the lighter the car. With 2-doors:[/COLOR][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=blue]Post coupes lightest[/COLOR][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=blue]Hartops (pillarless) next[/COLOR][/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=blue]Convertibles heaviest <O:p></O:p>[/COLOR][/FONT]




Wow Happy day !

Thanks for the look!

So you have the car that may be one of "under 1,000" still in existence. Wow... congrats.

John,
Glad to be of help. Many of the 442's that were campaigned as drag race cars were the Post coupe design. The post made the car lighter, but also stronger in that they kept the body from twisting during hard launches. I know of a couple Hardtops that ended up cracking windshields during drag race launches.
Take care,
Mark

[QUOTE=ziurtoys;461803]So you have the car that may be one of "under 1,000" still in existence. Wow... congrats.[/QUOTE]

Michael,

Thanks...it appears my car may be as rare as magenta Pythons LOL!

[QUOTE=azfletch;461846]John,
Glad to be of help. Many of the 442's that were campaigned as drag race cars were the Post coupe design. The post made the car lighter, but also stronger in that they kept the body from twisting during hard launches. I know of a couple Hardtops that ended up cracking windshields during drag race launches.
Take care,
Mark[/QUOTE]


Mark,


Thanks for the info...it is very interesting.

I could definitely feel the difference in this post coupe vs my non post Cutlasses I've owned in the past(1966 442 and 1969 Cutlass S convertible W30 w/Muncie 4 speed and Hurst shifter) as the car launches better and seems much lighter.

Here is a pic of the post:

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Dang Johnny, You scored!!!
With as many that have been, totaled, scrapped, chopped and parted out, You may have 1 that is less than 500 still in existence!
You should probably try to contact some Olds clubs and see if you can find out. Also I'd put some extra insurance on it, if I were you.
Once you get the bugs out of the motor, you should take it to the drag strip and get some times, you might have a 10sec car - being that its a light weight!
Josh

[QUOTE=sharky8js;462055]Dang Johnny, You scored!!!
With as many that have been, totaled, scrapped, chopped and parted out, You may have 1 that is less than 500 still in existence!
You should probably try to contact some Olds clubs and see if you can find out. Also I'd put some extra insurance on it, if I were you.
Once you get the bugs out of the motor, you should take it to the drag strip and get some times, you might have a 10sec car - being that its a light weight!
Josh[/QUOTE]


Josh,

Thanks for the good words again.

Yes I am very happy to have the car and I look forward to doing more research and learning about it.

To all that provided input on the overheating problem...Thanks!

I have good news.

The overheating problem has been fixed!

To make a long story short I had the following installed : High flow water pump and T-stat, Fan shroud , new OEM Fan blade and fan clutch and pusher Fan . Basically I replace everything but the radiator LOL!


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Thanks everyone ....This board is the best!

Homie, glad you got it cooled down! Here are some really old pics (late 70's) of my 70 Olds Cutlass.

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Pays to work at a tire store, lol.
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new paint job!
Sold to a co-worker for $1100 in the 80's.
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[QUOTE]T-stat, Fan shroud , new OEM Fan blade and fan clutch[/QUOTE]

These items are most likely is what fixed your overheating problem, had the same issue on my '70 Cutlass and my current f-body. I did replace the radiator with a desert cooler. Sweet ride, congratz!

[QUOTE=68Mustanger;462553]Homie, glad you got it cooled down! Here are some really old pics (late 70's) of my 70 Olds Cutlass.

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Pays to work at a tire store, lol.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]42078[/ATTACH]
new paint job!
Sold to a co-worker for $1100 in the 80's.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]42079[/ATTACH][/QUOTE]



Homie,

Thanks for the awesome pics of your Olds!...That was a bad A ride.
I liked the way you had it before your friend swapped out the wheels and changed the color...I remember having knockoffs on my wheels in the day.

I can't believe how much we sold our old rides for.
I sold my Cutlass W30 convertible for $2200 ...Ouch!

you and I have the same DNA - Cutlasses and Mustangs and of course reds... LOL!

It's amazing how great these Olds run and how easy it is to do burners in them.

I have a hard time keeping my tires from spinning on the 442.

I am worried that I will lose my good driver discount.

At least with the Vette I had traction control LOL!

[QUOTE=rpmking;462605]These items are most likely is what fixed your overheating problem, had the same issue on my '70 Cutlass and my current f-body. I did replace the radiator with a desert cooler. Sweet ride, congratz![/QUOTE]

Joe,

Thanks for the congrats...I was at Target yesterday and I bought a Hot Wheel of your 400....also found a 442 .


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Anyway ...yes what a relief to get the overheating problem fixed.

Since I purchased the car two weeks ago I fixed the cooling system , replaced rear shocks and coils , ignition tumbler, horn, tranny shift cable and now the car can be a daily driver ...NOT !

She eats gas like no other car I've owned.

Congrats on the obtaining that gorgeous car..
I'm sure you feel your life is complete now...:)

[I]Johnny, So glad you fixed the heating problem. Where did you get the pusher fan? Is it easy to install. Curious to know.[/I]

[I]Congratulations![/I]

[I]Ray:)[/I]

[QUOTE=rallyrose;462916][I]Johnny, So glad you fixed the heating problem. Where did you get the pusher fan? Is it easy to install. Curious to know.[/I]

[I]Congratulations![/I]

[I]Ray:)[/I][/QUOTE]



Hey Ray,

I got the pusher fan from Autozone and my friend got me the wholesale price of $70.

It is set to turn on at 190 and shut off at 190 (normal operating temp) .

It was fairly easy to hook up as it goes in front of the rad and there is a wire thermostatic switch that has a wire snaked into the upper rad hose.

I got it for extra cooling when running above normal operating temp but also I noticed that when I shut off the beast ...the engine temp would rise an extra ten degrees...this way when I shut it off the pusher fan will prevent the engine temp from rising and stay on till the engine cools off while parked.

I did not install it but I think it was just a couple wires ...power and ground to the battery post.
My mechanic did all the work...the older cars are fairly easy to work on but I had my mechanic do all the work as he needed to build brackets for the fan shroud and some fabrication to the top radiator support to accomodate the fan shroud.

I am exhausted from the whole ordeal but am glad the overheating problem is fixed and the I can drive the car anywhere. It is a blast to drive and it brings me back in time.

It is truly a survivor!

Wow Johnny that is AWESOME! Just saw this post for the first time. That is a beautiful car and looks insanely fast. What fun. Congrats!!!

- Andrew

[QUOTE=patwheels;463347]Wow Johnny that is AWESOME! Just saw this post for the first time. That is a beautiful car and looks insanely fast. What fun. Congrats!!!

- Andrew[/QUOTE]

Andrew,

Thanks for the good words...and you're right it is "insanely fast".

There is nothing like the torque of a big block LOL!

[QUOTE=Johnnyredline;463622]Andrew,

Thanks for the good words...and you're right it is "insanely fast".

There is nothing like the torque of a big block LOL![/QUOTE]




And it sure takes LOTS of gas to feed that torque, at least gas is cheap! ............:)