What would your decision be....

Still no answer to the above. Lots of feelings and talk about criminals in general. But nothing pertaining to the core of this debate.

Quick shot at the math. 58 years @ $40G's to sustain a child killer is just about $2, 320,000.00 for the life. Cost of the death penalty trial, from what Ihear on the streets can cost a Mil, more or less, depending on the amount of appeals. If they guy has his own money, discount that amount, because the Statedoesn't have to buy him an attorney. Death not only saves us tax dollars to be given to people who don't like to work, but it also sends a message tothe masses. Of course this message is better served/delivered at $19.95 on PPV.....

<table border="0"><tbody><tr><td> Cost of Life Without Parole: Cases Equivalent To Death Penalty Cases </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td>Cost of Death Penalty Cases </td> <td> </td> </tr><tr><td>1. $34,200/year (1)for 50 years (2), at a 2% (3)annual cost increase, plus $75,000 (4)for trial & appeals </td> <td>= $3.01 million </td> <td width="5"> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td>$60,000/year (1)for 6 years (5), at a 2% (3) annual cost increase, plus $1.5 million (4) for trial & appeals </td> <td>= $1.88 million </td> </tr><tr><td>2. Same, except 3% (3) </td> <td>= $4.04 million </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td>Same, except 3% (3) </td> <td>= $1.89 million </td> </tr><tr><td>3. Same, except 4% (3) </td> <td>= $5.53 million </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td>Same, except 4% (3) </td> <td>= $1.91 million </td> </tr></tbody></table> (1) The $34,200 is conservative, if TIME Magazine's (2/7/94)research is accurate. TIME found that, nationwide, the average cell cost is $24,000/yr. and the maximum security cell cost is $75,000/yr. (as of 12/95).Opponents claim that LWOP should replace the DP. Therefore, any cost calculations should be based specifically on cell costs for criminals who have committedthe exact same category of offense - in other words, cost comparisons are valid only if you compare the costs of DP-equivalent LWOP cases to the cost of DPcases. The $34,200/yr. cell cost assumes that only 20% of the DP-equivalent LWOP cases would be in maximum security cost cells and that 80% of theDP-equivalent LWOP cases would be in average cost cells. A very conservative estimate. The $60,000/yr., for those on death row, assumes that such cells willaverage a cost equal to 80% of the $75,000/yr. for the most expensive maximum security cells. A very high estimate. Even though we are calculating a 75%greater cell cost for the DP than for equivalent LWOP cases, equivalent LWOP cases appear to be significantly more expensive, over time, than their DPcounterparts. For years, opponents have improperly compared the cost of all LWOP cases to DP cases, when only the DP equivalent LWOP cases arerelevant.(2) U.S. Vital Statistics Abstract, 1994 and Capital Punishment 1995, BJS1996.(3) Annual cost increases are based upon: 1) historical increases in prisoncosts, including judicial decisions regarding prison conditions, and the national inflation rate; 2) medical costs, including the immense cost of geriatriccare, associated with real LWOP sentences; 3) injury or death to the inmate by violence; 4) injury or death to others caused by the inmate (3 and 4 anticipateno DP and that prisoners, not fearing additional punishment, other than loss of privileges, may increase the likelihood of violence. One could make the sameassumptions regarding those on death row. The difference is that death row inmates will average 6 years incarceration vs. 50 years projected for LWOP); 5) therisk and the perceived risk of escape; and 6) the justifiable lack of confidence by the populace in our legislators, governors, parole boards and judges, i.e.a violent inmate will be released upon society.(4) $75,000 for trial and appeals cost, for DP-equivalent LWOP cases, assumesthat the DP is not an option. We believe this cost estimate is very low. We have over-estimated that DP cases will cost twentytimes more, on average, or $1.5 million. Our exaggerated estimate states that the DP will have twenty times more investigation cost, defense andprosecution cost, including voir dire, court time, guilt/innocence stage, sentencing stage and appellate review time and cost than DP equivalent LWOP cases.Even though we have greatly exaggerated the cost of DP cases, DP cases still prove to be significantly less expensive, over time, than the DP equivalent LWOPcases.(5) 6 years on death row, prior to execution, reflects the newhabeas corpus reform laws, at both the state and federal levels. Some anti-death penalty groups speculate that such time may actually become only 4years. If so, then DP cases would cost even that much less than the DP equivalent LWOP cases. However, the average time on death row, for those executed from1973-1994, was 8 years (Capital Punishment 1994, BJS, 1995). Therefore, 6 years seems more likely. Even using the 8 year average, the DP equivalent LWOP casesare still $1 million more expensive than their DP counterparts ($2 million @ 2% annual increase). Let the facts be said in numbers and not feelings. Note this based on life without parole cases and doesnt evenbegin to include the cost incurred on release programs in cases where these folks get paroled.

I was not going to get involved in this "discussion", again! Greg, if I may intervene, is talking about this..... <a target="_blank" href="http://www.fnsa.org/v1n1/dieter1.html">http://www.fnsa.org/v1n1/dieter1.html</a> But sometimes, there is such overwhelming evidence, that when the jury comes back with,"Off with his head", there is a Guillotine waiting behindthe courthouse. Done , over, period. No more costs incurred. Later, Steve

Look from the other end, which can be remedied. A lotta these murderous gang bangers and what have you, come from families who, lets face it, don'texactly have the best pedigree. Couple that with the thoughts and mindsets these hungry disenfranchised kids formulate growing up absorbing all the poison onTV and in the culture, poverty, etc....and they'll have not much respect for a society that in their minds, spat them out and sh!t on them. By that I meanthe lack of things like accessible swimming pools in the summer, other various affordable programs that we had growing up in the '60s and '70s.It's become a user fee society that leaves a whole bunch out. I grew up in a middle income family and never suffered, but I know the rate of degradation tothe social institutions in society are taking an enormous toll. I'll tell you the problem right now, it's the differences that have taken place insociety since about 1980. What we are exposed to now is incredibly different than what it was. JUSTIN.............you shoulda been there man! Andy

<blockquote> Of course this message is better served/delivered at $19.95 on PPV.....</blockquote>I've always thought PPV would be a great thing...the money raised could go to the victims of these scum bags... SIGN ME UP <img src="http://www.ezboard.com/image/posticons/pi_freak.gif" alt="image">

<img height="15" src="http://redlinesonlinemessageboard.yuku.com/domain/bypass/images/pacman.gif" width="15" alt="image">What was in 1970, and what is now,are 2 totally different worlds! Is it game over for us?

<img height="15" src="http://redlinesonlinemessageboard.yuku.com/domain/bypass/images/pacman.gif" width="15" alt="image">I see the economists have come outwith the numbers for our crunching!

As I said, somewhere much much earlier in this thread - I've found that it's almost impossible to have a rational discussion with people who arepro-death penalty. They just become angry and then take everything personally and go on the attack. And once it has descended to that level, I'm done. I'm obviously a party crasher here, so I'll go away and y'all can enjoy your hatefest. Peace, Greg

Andy. What? Dude i love ya man but seriously you contradict the hell out of yourself. You were praising the values of not having censorship earlier and nowyoure condeming TV violence as the source of the problem. Make up your mind. And yes i got some numbers up for you all to look at. Shame on me for providing some hard facts. <img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/laugh.gif" alt="image">