Work Layoffs...

[QUOTE=mlbuser;365229]But if the economy collapses we all burn with it, yes? I won't argue that the deficit is a terrible thing, it is. But if the economy collapses we'll have to default on all of that debt, and I don't even want to contemplate that. If the economy can be reboosted with another 500 BILLION (or whatever) of government spending its much cheaper than starting from scratch. I don't have enough land for subsistence farming. [/quote]

The economy wasn't going anywhere. Wall Street is making record profits. It's not because we bailed them out. We are still feeding the profits with the ultra low interest rates. Low rates that will come back to bite us soon.

The arguement was that they had to stop a run on the banks like happened during the depression. B.S. there was no need to make a run as the deposits are gauranteed unlike during the depression. If a bank goes under, the vast majority of people don't lose anything. Banks are still failing in record numbers. G.S. is doing fine despite screwing us over.

[quote]Scott you don't like the deficit, I hear that, but is the best way out of this recession for the government to slow its spending? If we take that course what would you expect the economy to be like over the next year or two.

Mark[/QUOTE]

I would expect it to start turning around.

Scott is 100% on target with his comments. Not to politicize this but the same exact type of situation was inherited by Reagan when he took office from the previous administration. The peanut farmer had his imaginary $$ tree as well & drove us into an economic collapse (eerily familiar to now) & stimulated the economy by cutting taxes to [B][I]all[/I][/B], thus helping large & small business grow, by hiring more & driving unemployment down in his first term in office. Smaller government has shown throughout our history, to have the strongest economic growth than the ones like now entrenched in DC. Bailouts are not the way to go especially when there's [B][I]NO[/I][/B] economic growth being provided.

" I've always been of the thought that the amount owed by any one citizen should be pro-rated to your income level.

If you are a Wall Street financial tycoon who rakes in $50Million/year, you would pay considerably more towards paying down the debt than the slurpee server behind the counter at 7-11. I think folks who've financially benefited more from the system should owe a more proportional amount."

I'm so tired of these arguements. I make a comfortable living but hey I spent 4 years of college, 4 years of graduate school and then an additional 3 years of training to get where I am at. I was almost 29 years old before I was done and had gone straight through working my ass off. The gov't had to come in and say my training was limited to 80 hours/week and at most 36 hours/shift straight to make it humane....before that I had a couple of 100+hour weeks in grad school. I got paid during my training and at one point made $4/hr...in 2004 mind you. I left grad school with 120K in loan debt....yep thats a house at a lot of place. Now that I make a decent income I'm due to pay more money than the 7-11 guy? That's BS. If anything the 7-11 guy uses more social services/year than my entire family combined. Don't feed me the arguement that we all have different opportunties either.....first one in my family to go to college. I'm tired of being the whipping boy or being punished for having some success and working my ass off to get it. If more people got out there and took the opportunities given to them then we wouldn't be in this mess.....hell if we didn't have so many high school dropouts and people valued an education be wouldn't be in this mess.

My 25cents worth---

Jmaner,
It's called an entitlement mentality...many people know of no other condition, or learned to enjoy it...

What cracks me up is I've always thought the rich were an asset to the economy. Why? BECAUSE THEY SPEND MONEY!! More than most folks, I might add...
I'm not rich, but I sure appreciate rich people and all that they do. It takes enthusiasm and drive to succeed, and it's possible with work work WORK...
The able bodied welfare deadbeats are what chap my hide...or the one's who milk the system with a fake disability...

But then again, I used to admire Hippies too, not a care in the world...I still think about hippies from time to time...
Peace, Love, Dope...

the sad reality is there are many in this society who believe they are entitled to a "hand out" but are unwilling to do whatever is needed to avoid needing one.

We should "help" those in society that need "help". Those that make more are natuarally going to pay more. There is nothing wrong with that. The problem is as jmaner notes, when some believe it's wrong for some who have worked for it to have more than they do.

It's wrong to do what the government is doing today in picking who should be helped and who should be allowed to fail.

[QUOTE=1Perry;365483]It's wrong to do what the government is doing today in picking who should be helped and who should be allowed to fail.[/QUOTE]

Bingo.......everyone needs help now & then but it's those who think that they're 100% entitled to it.....that's the problem.

[QUOTE=PeepingScott;365472]Jmaner,

What cracks me up is I've always thought the rich were an asset to the economy. Why? BECAUSE THEY SPEND MONEY!! More than most folks, I might add..[/QUOTE]







Actually Scott, it's the 'middle class' that drives and flourishes the economy the most. Without the middle class you'd have a peasant class ruled by a king and aristocracy, just the very thing that the 'whole premise' of the US and it's Constitution was designed to do away with. The King of England was quite happy to have the colonists do all the work and send the fruits of their labour to him and his cronies.


Now gents, I never said anything about handouts or welfare or social services, and I'm sure that anyone who works and reports an income, doesn't qualify for welfare or whatever. I'm talking about that 'average amount' number owed by each citizen that totals the massive number that is the debt. Someone who makes $15,000/year certainly can't owe the same $46,000 than someone who makes $50,000,000/year.
If every citizen was a Wall Street tycoon, who would clean the toilets in their offices, or pave the roads they use to drive their Rolls to the country club, or drive the truck to deliver the scotch to the liquor store, or work in the grocery store which feeds the masses. There are all levels of income throughout society paid for necessary occupations which makes it all work. Different people doing all sorts of lesser jobs frees those capable of more to concentrate their abilities on their occupations. I've always had handsomely paying jobs and certainly didn't mind paying a little more towards the good society in which I live. Some folks will never be more capable of more than being a receptionist in a law office, or serving slurpees or cleaning toilets, but those are necessary occupations that make the whole thing work.

I ain't trying to minimize your effort jmaner in the hard work you've done to get ahead and do well in life, but you must realize that all those folks doing lesser jobs beneath you, enables you to do whatever it is you do, which I suppose is some sort of profession or highly skilled trade. Some wall street guy making $50,000,000 annually will do quite well making $49,000,000 annually, whereas how the heck does someone who makes $15,000/yr pay down $46,000 worth of debt after paying for shelter, food, and transportation, as well as a few bucks for some fun stuff, like a redline or 2 or maybe a day out to DisneyLand or a case of beer.

The point that is being made is: the higher income class should not be penalized or pay a higher percentage of taxes for making their share. Without them, many business' could not hire & create more jobs thus stimulating the economy. If John the custodian makes X-amount & Tom, the company's owner who employs him, makes X-amount the percentage they each are taxed should be equal. Business owners will always pay much more for everything they supply not only to the government but employee benefits as well. Of course everyone's situation varies & not all employees & business owners are fair & just in their actions or ways they live life or run a business. I am by no means in the upper income bracket but do not expect the owners of my company to get screwed by the government anymore than they already do. That's just my .98 cents.

Flat tax?