"Does anyone see a better outcome for this guy? "<br><br>Are you talking about Andy? If so, no I don't.
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"Does anyone see a better outcome for this guy? "<br><br>Are you talking about Andy? If so, no I don't.
<blockquote> <strong class="quote-title">Tom Bourgeois wrote:</strong> <hr> Hey Andy---It's better not to get sucked into these types of exchanges---ToM/NOLa---the baseball bat-toting, pro-choice, anti-capital punishment, long-time RLOL liberal, who sometimes posts here <br></blockquote>Tom, it is not called getting "sucked in" when he is the person who instigated the exchange. If killing is barbaric, why is it okay tokill babies but not murderers? Seems like a double standard, either you feel killing for any reason is wrong or you don't.<br><br>And Andy, I did not tell you to take your ball and go home, I was making a sarcastic response to you saying you were through with this thread. I stated thatwas what you were doing metaphorically.
Hey Jamie---Start another thread if you wanna debate the abortion issue. Chrish will love you for it but I won't bother with it. I promise---ToM/NOLa
Much to do about nothing. Killer gets life.<br><a target="_blank" href="http://news.aol.com/story/_a/jury-wants-life-sentence-for-ohio-ex-cop/20080227145309990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001">http://news.aol.com/story/_a/jury-wants-life-sentence-for-ohio-ex-cop/20080227145309990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001</a><br>Lucky for us, baby killers get very special treatment in the box. He shoulda begged for the needle.
<blockquote> <strong class="quote-title">Tom Bourgeois wrote:</strong> <hr> Hey Jamie---Start another thread if you wanna debate the abortion issue. Chrish will love you for it but I won't bother with it. I promise---ToM/NOLa</blockquote><p> I don't want to debate abortion. I was just commenting on your seemingly contradictory statement where you said pro choice yet anti capital punishment.If you think it is ok to kill one, why not the other?</p>
Hey Jamie---Start another thread if you wanna debate the abortion issue. Chrish will love you for it but I won't bother with it. I promise---ToM/NOLa <br>
Sad that this thread has descended into what it has... But it's in line with what I've always found to be true - it's almost impossible to have acalm, rational, non-personal discussion about Capital Punishment.<br><br>Whenever I state my view of being against it, those who are in favor immediately get angry and start making wild, silly generalizations and calling me namessuch as "tree hugger" or "bleeding heart liberal" as has happened here, without making any attempt to actually listen to what I have said.<br><br>Andy, I think you've been out of line, on the other end, in your comments about those who are in favor of it... you can't make sweeping generalizationsas you have and not expect people to take exception to it.<br><br>But I don't see that it matters whether a person is liberal, conservative, democrat, republican, christian or buddhist where Capital Punishment isconcerned. To me it's just a matter of logic and common sense, and being human.
And, by the way, kudos to grandma (if the story as represented above is correct) for being human.
<blockquote> <strong class="quote-title">jamwood1 wrote:</strong> <hr><blockquote> <strong class="quote-title">Tom Bourgeois wrote:</strong> <hr> Hey Andy---It's better not to get sucked into these types of exchanges---ToM/NOLa---the baseball bat-toting, pro-choice, anti-capital punishment, long-time RLOL liberal, who sometimes posts here <br></blockquote>Tom, it is not called getting "sucked in" when he is the person who instigated the exchange. If killing is barbaric, why is it okay to kill babies but not murderers? Seems like a double standard, either you feel killing for any reason is wrong or you don't. <br><br> And Andy, I did not tell you to take your ball and go home, I was making a sarcastic response to you saying you were through with this thread. I stated that was what you were doing metaphorically.</blockquote><p> <img height="18" src="http://redlinesonlinemessageboard.yuku.com/domain/bypass/images/thumbsup.gif" width="25" alt="image"> Hey, no problem dude! I'measy to get along with. Really! Just wait 'till Easter when I start a thread on what 'actually' (conjecture) happened to Jesus. Guaranteed HOT andTASTY stuff! It's called 'Veneration'! And then stand by for what actually happened in the Garden of Eden, just exactly why God told Adam and Evenot to do dat! You guys think this thread is hot and outta hand, just wait! All in the name of good debate! BTW, I'm glad to hear the guy got life. Blessall your souls! Now, that Canadian tool in jail in Montana, that may make for a good thread! Keep him if he's guilty, just do as the Bible says, Thou ShaltNot Kill! Nothing within the Bible contradicts the 10 Commandments except for the various Bibles with different Commandments. Pick up 10 different Bibles, andyou'll see. Even Andy Rooney on 60 minutes pointed this out. Andy<img height="15" src="http://redlinesonlinemessageboard.yuku.com/domain/bypass/images/pacman.gif" width="15" alt="image"></p>
so the killer cop gets life.....that figures. thanks for posting that ChrisH. he doesn't deserve what he took away from that woman and their unbornbaby...really breaks my heart. and ChrisH, to answer your question......due to the suspects rambling, changing of subjects multiple times and lack ofunderstandability, i ordered him out the vehicle and asked him to complete some field sobriety tests. after the tests were complete, i then called for a squadto complete a mental health evaluation.......
Andy, at some point you decided you know what my feelings on religion are, but I have never stated one way or the other. So, what you write about in anotherthread concerning Easter or the garden of Eden, I may actually agree with you on. I just don't agree with you on this subject or your use of sweepinggeneralities about people who happen to agree on a particular subject.<br><br>Greg, I agree this is a hot button topic that you and I will respectfully have to agree to disagree on. I am a very compassionate person, but I believe thereis a line that can be crossed that deems a person be removed from society permanently.<br><br>As far as the 3 year old goes, I doubt if the man was ever to get out, the child (then in his 30s) would want to pursue a relationship with the killer of hismother and sibling.
Thanks for the support ToM! Greg, you of anyone should know exactly what I'm talking about when I talk of the spectrum and where the various beliefs liethere-on. Most generally speaking, everthing in the Universe exists somewhere on the spectrum, words, grammar, light, matter, sentiments, politics,acids/bases. Compare the right wing and left wing mentalities. One is acidic, one is a base, and all the pH levels in between! I commented on that. See foryourself and make your own determination, you'll see. If beliefs fall where they do, that's not my doing. I just noticed! Don't take what I saypersonally. I'm a non-believing Catholic, Liberal minded, right of center guy, .................fire away, who cares! Just don't get personal. Icommented on 'a belief', not anyone's belief in particular. Andy<img height="15" src="http://redlinesonlinemessageboard.yuku.com/domain/bypass/images/pacman.gif" width="15" alt="image"><p><br></p>
"i ordered him out the vehicle and asked him to complete some field sobriety tests. after the tests were complete, i then called for a squad to complete amental health evaluation......."<br><br>Thank you sir. That concludes my questioning of said individual.
silence is golden
<img height="15" src="http://redlinesonlinemessageboard.yuku.com/domain/bypass/images/pacman.gif" width="15" alt="image">Reading makes no noise!
<p>Okay guys, prepare for one of my novelettes. I took a day off to spend with my baby bro and this thread went to seven pages. I think a few nerves weretouched. Good. Dialogue time! I probably should start my own thread on this, but trying to squeeze death penalty, religion, abortion and just what the hell ISthat stuff in Hostess Twinkies into a subject line ain't gonna happen.</p><p>So now, without further ado...</p><p>Hunter: wow! Long time no see! Good to see you again.</p><p>Justin, you struck an excellent point in regards to the media. Look at the society we live in, where Geraldoism is the norm. It was Geraldo Rivera whostarted the daytime TV drama. Prior to that he was actually a decent investigative reporter. Then he decided the go the route of sensationalism and it'sbeen downhill since then. We live in a society where newspaper "writers" can't write an article without the help of a spell check, which as weknow is not 100% fool-proof, and television reporters do not want to touch a story unless there is something sensational about it (I'm sure management hasplenty to do with that as well). But hey, we're drinking what they're pouring out, right? By we I mean our society in general.</p><p>Stories about police officers doing good things only make the news if it can be squeezed into the last two minutes of the telecast, which is reserved forfeel-good stories if they can make effort to find them. Even then it has to be something they can giggle about, such as a cop or a fireman doing mouth-to-snoutto save a dog or cat.</p><p>Chris: oh HELL yeah! I've been saying for years that we should televise executions. The problem is, most people aren't going to pay to see some guygo to sleep on a hospital gurney. It appalls me that we're so concerned with putting criminals to death in the most humane way possible, as well as howmuch it costs. I had to have my precious little baby girl (chocolate labrador retriever) put to sleep humanely so that she would no longer feel so much pain.She deserved the most humane method possible and it cost a hell of a lot less.<br></p><p>Why is it that we have to put a child rapist and murder to death in a way that's more humane than a beloved pet? I stand by my previous notion of alarge-calibre bullet directly through the <em>medulla oblongata</em><br>. There's nothing inhumane about that. It's not cruel or unusual. It's not like the guillotine, where it's thought that the human brain mayremain alive for seconds - or even minutes - before it's lights out and thus the person has time for thought. Hell, I'm all for that. Let them spendthose last few seconds or minutes thinking about <em>why</em> they are being put to death.</p><p>And don't anyone give me that barbarism bull crap. Barbarism is hanging people from street lamps, where they can dangle for extended periods of timeuntil they either die from asphyxiation or loss of blood flow to the brain. It's throwing large rocks at someone, pummelling them to death over the periodof what can be <em>hours</em>. If you want to call barbarism, talk to the countries that practise shari'ah law. I'm sure they'd love to hear youropinions.</p><p>Can anyone here give me good reason why a man who kidnapped, repeatedly raped and tortured, then <strong>buried alive</strong> a young girl, should not beput to death? Please tell me how his life is worth more than that cow they bonked over the head, strung up by it's ankles then had it's throat cut andbled out while it was still conscious, so you could have that steak for dinner?</p><p>Greg, I agree that things need to be revamped so that we do not put innocent people to death, but give me a break, man. We're not talking aboutcompassion for the old man who killed his wife to end her suffering because the state didn't have the balls to allow for a Kevorkian-style, see ya laterkinda party. We're not talking about the woman who killed her husband after forty years of constant abuse. We're talking about the scum of the earth Irefer to in my previous paragraph (the guy, not the cow). That is an actual person I refer to, who has been a repeat offender.</p><p>From those of you who bring up the part about those who really are innocent (such as those whose convictions are overturned upon DNA evidence, etc), give mea percentage statistic - and I want to see a citation from a believable source - of how many people have been put to death then later discovered to beinnocent. I constantly hear and read the argument that even one innocent is too much. Again, I agree that the system needs to be revamped. However, in that Ialso mean no more sitting on death row for 40 years. If it can be proved <em>unequivocally</em> that someone is guilty, I say screw the appeals process. YouARE the weakest link. Goodbye.</p><p>Andy again: Exactly what does the homeless guy have to do with the death penalty? I can make an easy connection for you. You didn't say what became ofhis father, but I have a feeling he spent a number of years under the care and supervision of the state, along with plenty of tax dollars being spent to houseand feed the SOB. Had he instead been put to death, that money could have gone to helping his son. Any people there who think the guy should be killed orotherwise put to death merely because he's mentally ill and homeless... THOSE people need to get in queue because I have plenty of b****-slaps to hand outto them. Really, though, I do not at all see what your tangent has to do with the death penalty.</p><p>Greg again. Compassion. I'm all for it. What do you propose we do with all these criminals, who can't seem to live life without killing, raping,molesting or otherwise victimising others? See, this is where the bleeding hearts make me really irate; they call for compassion, saying hey, let's putthese people to work in factories or some place where they can make money to pay for their care. Many of these bleeding hearts are the SAME ones who say no, wecan't do that. Putting them into forced labour is slavery and that's wrong. Going on about human rights and singing kum-bai-ya accomplishes squat. Sogive us a REAL solution instead.</p><blockquote> I'm curious just how many people who call for the death penalty would actually do the deed.</blockquote><br>All right! Now's my chance to show a little ingenuity and creativity. Prepare yourself, this ain't gonna be pretty. This is just one idea, straight offthe top, first thing that came to mind upon reading your question. We don't need people to do the actual deed, but hell, let's put those serial killersto work before they themselves are put to death. I'm sure they'll relish in the opportunity to pull the switch. Okay, this time I got all tangentalbecause that idea came to mind as I began to type my original idea. Back on track now... picture a booth of sorts, where the convicted could kneel and say alast prayer. Yeah, I got the religious thing this time because how many of those on death row don't suddenly find Jesus? The dude sure does pop up in thestrangest of places.<p>So anyway, there's this booth thing, where they can kneel. Think of it like a confessional. Those who didn't miraculously find Jesus hiding on deathrow can just kneel, knowing that their time has come. You know those machines they make you put your face against when having an eye exam and they do the puffything with air against your eyes? Yeah. Use something like that, so the person, as they kneel, put their forehead and chin against. As they do, it sets off atimer. They get a random time between 15 and 45 seconds to do their last words thang and BLAM, automated bullet through the back of the head. That <em>medullaoblongata</em> thing I keep referring to. Lights out. Thank you, drive through.</p><blockquote> The further to the right your frame of mind is, the more visceral and unintellectual you are. The further to the left, the more intellectual and less of a propensity for violence</blockquote><br>Hoo boy. I thought you were off kilter with the religion sidebars but damn boy, you just landed yourself in wackytown. Saying that is no better than someonerepeatedly throwing out the L-word (liberal - the other L word) repeatedly. The attempt to label conservatives as unintellectual is unfair and ignorant. I canname one person straight off who is far right and unintellectual, but that doesn't mean everyone on that end of the spectrum a dullard.<p>Jamie touched on a great point in regards to the right/left, conservative/liberal thing. Thank you, Jamie, because I can tell that you understand noteveryone is always on one side of that invisible line between the two ends. There is more middle than some people realise. As well, there are a number ofpeople who like to hop back and forth. Damn. I sound like a bisexual all of a sudden. Nah, I didn't mean <em>that</em> fence, thank you. What I'msaying is, take a look at this thread. Use my views for an example. Someone who doesn't know me and used Andy's Guide to Right Wingers would surelythink I'm hangin out there with Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly. But wait! Wasn't I the one who recently, in at least one other thread, appeared tobe hangin out with the ACLU bunch? Did I just divide by zero without permission?</p><p>Oh it gets better. Andy pulled out the D-word. Deterrent. It's about damned time someone brought that one into the discussion. After all, the deathpenalty is supposed to be a deterrent, right? Um. No. It's punishment. If it were supposed to be a deterrent, it would be televised. Shock n' awestyle. That guy who is pissed off at the world and wants to go on a shooting rampage might actually stop and think for a change and get his wits about himselfif he watches some scumbag get offed on live television. Repeat sex offender? (Yeah, I know it's redundant, but there are those one in a million whoaren't repeat offenders.) No problem! Caught screwing a kid who hasn't even reached puberty? Off with his dangly bits, said The Queen.</p><p>You don't think <strong>that</strong> would be a deterrent? How do you think we got into this mess in the first place? Too frickin many people gettingwrist slaps and "oh, poor person has a problem, let's hold their hand and help them get better" bull****. There is no incentive to fight thosenasty urges and seek help. Watch a few episodes of "To Catch a Predator" and eventually you'll see at least one guy who got busted for trying tohook up with a 13-year-old CHILD (just because they got boobs and a vagina doesn't make them a woman) do the same crap again. Show him a film depictingsome guy getting his nads hacked off and he'll think twice next time. And if he doesn't, let him be the star in the next version of "bye byeballs." Or better yet, by then we'll know he can't be cured, so a rifle bullet through the back of the skull can "fix" him.</p><p>Last but not least, I'm against abortion AND pro choice. I couldn't do it, but I don't feel it's my right to tell another woman what she canor cannot do with her body. It's up to her to deal with that decision, and up to HER relationship with her God if she has one. Religion. Most of you knowI'm a heathen. Raised Lutheran (Missouri Synod, no less) and now blaspheme at any given opportunity (By the way, Andy, Easter is cancelled - they found abody). Did I leave anything out? Oh yeah, I'm here, I'm queer, blah blah blah and all that crap.</p><p>There. That should do it.</p><p>ps @ Chris: I'm completely sober <img src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif"><br><br>The End.<br></p>
Kitty,<br>Trust me, I know you are!
<blockquote> oh HELL yeah! I've been saying for years that we should televise executions.</blockquote><font style="font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;" size="7">Running Man!<br></font><font style="font-weight: bold;" size="7"><font size="3"><br><br>-<br><br></font></font>
"Oh it gets better. Andy pulled out the D-word. Deterrent. It's about damned time someone brought that one into the discussion. After all, the deathpenalty is supposed to be a deterrent, right? Um. No. It's punishment. If it were supposed to be a deterrent, it would be televised. Shock n' awestyle. That guy who is pissed off at the world and wants to go on a shooting rampage might actually stop and think for a change and get his wits about himselfif he watches some scumbag get offed on live television. Repeat sex offender? (Yeah, I know it's redundant, but there are those one in a million whoaren't repeat offenders.) No problem! Caught screwing a kid who hasn't even reached puberty? Off with his dangly bits, said The Queen."<br><br>==============================<br><br>Consider this: we already have "suicide by cop" and "suicide by truck." Whacked out people think like whacked out people. They aren'tinterested in logic or second thoughts. The world owes them something. The voices tell them drive into a semi at 80 miles per and they do it. They thinkpulling a water pistol painted black and pointing it at a cop is smart. It's a spectacular way to go. It makes the news. It makes them <em>somebody</em> ifonly for a very brief instant. They don't care whomever elses' lives they send into the grave or psychiatric care.<br><br>Take the school shootings. Now instead of putting a cap in their own fool selves, these whiny, "nobody loves me or even knows who I am" psychos aregoing to say..."Gee, I'll kill a lot of people and get my name in the national media. THEN, I'll beg for the death penalty and everyone will getto see me die and talk about it at work the next day.<br><br>"SWEEEEEEEET!"<br><br>They're effing whackos that *want* the attention. Just like the guys who shot Lennon (John) and Reagan (Ron). Don't give it to them.<br><br>In the end, I don't know if I'm agreeing with you or not. I'm just saying, the DP is punishment. Punishment should be swift, firm, fair, andprivate.<br><br>Joel.
<p>I wish I had time for a complete discussion of the issue; alas, I don't. However, let me tap out a few quick ideas...</p><p>First, and I hope everyone really reads this statement and tries to understand what I mean...</p><p>I think all criminals should be <em>given the opportunity</em> to be fully accountable, and fully responsible, and make amends, for their crimes, and thevictims of their crimes.</p><p>Please think about that... it's the only way to try and salvage a tragic incident and turn it into something positive. There have been many beautifulstories of murderers who have made amends to the victim's surviving loved ones. I'm sorry, but I don't have time to find links / sources, etc. buttrust me, they are out there.<br><br>Another one to please, please, just <em>think</em> about....<br><br>Capital Punishment accomplishes nothing. It only piles another tragedy on top of tragedy. As Kitty correctly noted, it is NOT a deterrent - this has beenproven time and time again by criminologists.<br><br>The only thing CP serves is our reptilian desire for revenge.<br><br>And here's another one to, please, just toss around in your head for awhile...<br><br>There is no such thing as revenge; it is an illusion.<br><br>A bleeding heart liberal I am not. I am only one who is trying to make things work.<br><br>Greg</p>
TK: Didn't go off on a tyrade. Simply further qualified the statements you were most likely to be disagreeing with...the first that Clinton was soft on themilitary and the second (which you failed to note) that Bush had the right to return troops to Iraq.<br><br>I simply like to provide the substance of my statements rather than make quick allusions and leave the respondant wondering.<br><br>If that's out of control and indicative of road rage, then I'd hate to see the way *you* drive. Because based on *your* posts, you're the type that"owns the road" and goes where she wants when she wants and doesn't know what that little lever on the left side of the steering wheel is for. Isthat a true assumption? No? Then why are you making assumptions about how I drive because I post negatively about your favorite president?<br><br>Yeah. And if I was off the mark, sorry. But I also notice you never clarified what other comment you disagreed with. Only blamed *me* for assuming based on*your* lack of clarification. Just a quick hit and run trying to shift the focus from yourself to point a finger at someone else.<br><br>Sooooo....<br><br>May I *assume* I made the right assumption?<br><br>Yeah. Thought so.<br><br>And no. Not frothing. Totally in control, logical, and simply expounding to further clarify what I said earlier.<br><br>That's the way I am.<br><br>Joel.
I have a lot to add here, but I only have a minute. More later. For now. Greg said it. It's what's in the heart, mind, soul, whatever. It's notabout the suffering of some criminal leading up to and at the point of execution. It's not about the whiney bleeding heart libs, and it's notnecessarily about what the families want or don't want, or what the state want's,.............................it's about that lizardy thing withinGreg mentions. And the more of it you have in you, really and truly, is a sign that you just quite haven't attained full humanhood or humanity that mostreligeons are about. It's the ability to rise above this lowly burdensome psyche. Otherwise, it really is just a bunch of apes or monkeys clobbering eachother. Really. Just remember what I said earlier, we are just 1/2 a chromosome away from a chimp. I have an idea to fix the world! I'll rise up on mysoapbox and execute every and any person on this planet who has so much as a hair of this lizardy thing within whether or not your the guy on death row, orthe advocate of the death penalty. And while I'm at it, I'll get rid of all the jonesers and coveters too! That would essentially weed ALL that lizardything right out of The Garden. No more killers, and no need for police! How's that. I don't have anymore patience to wait for God to get off his A$$and clean this mess he made up like all the preachers are telling us is about to happen. Who's with me? Andy<img height="15" src="http://redlinesonlinemessageboard.yuku.com/domain/bypass/images/pacman.gif" width="15" alt="image"><p><br></p>Also, I'll say it again, for all, but particularly the Christians among us. LOOK UP EPISCOPAL BISHOP JOHN SPONG and what he has to say. The nameis SPONG! Do it!!!!!!1 Here, check it out. Just an overview. Google John Spong <a target="_blank" href="http://www.liberator.net/articles/LiberatorMark/Spong.html">http://www.liberator.net/articles/LiberatorMark/Spong.html</a>
<font color="#FF3333">I had an uncle murdered in Philadelphia 34 years ago. I remember clearly because my Sweet 16 was cancelled and I just turned 50. ANyway, the guy that murdered my uncle had murdered 3 people before. He went to prison and behaved and was released early. At the very least, a murderershould never breathe fresh air again. An electric chair would definitely guarantee that he /she will not repeat that crime again.<br><br>Capital punishment won't stop murders but it will make some people think twice before pulling that trigger.<br><br>My uncle was murdered the day before he was to retire. The murderer knocked on his door and he was asking for donations the victims of some storm in SouthAmerica. <br><br><br>Maribell</font>
why do some people think that a murder can be cured or rehabed or anything else. why would some people want these POS's vene remotely released back intosociety!!! to do what....KILL AGAIN...or even a dam child molester...they are only going to repeat what should have gotten the whacked to begin with. nowi'll tell ya somethin about myself...i am a Democrat that is against abortion and i am a firm believer in the death penalty...if you couldnt already tell!!i also have alot of conservative views, as well as liberal....but i do consider myself middle of the road on most issues. except one.....the death penalty.i'd just a soon take the bleeding heart POS that wants to see the child rapist murderer go free and take them out back and put a cap in them. why in thehell would a person that does not know a POS like that at all, want to speak out for them?!<br><br>Greg said this, I think all criminals should be given the opportunity to be fully accountable, and fully responsible, and make amends, for their crimes, andthe victims of their crimes. dude, have you ever worked or even been in a jail or prison?!!!!!!! well i have and these POS's don't give a rats assabout you or me and surely don't give a rats ass about their victim or victims!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the only remorse they have is that they got freakincaught bro!!!!! and thats the truth...believe it!!!!! when they are in jail or prison, they act like they are having the greatest time of their dam life..theydon't sit in their cells and think about what they have done!! they are out playin around and watchin dam cable TV...WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! they are lowlife scum and need to be treated as such.....cmon!!!!!!!!!<br><br>Andy.....dude...i love ya.....but come back to planet Earth bro!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! nough said there.<br><br>These dam criminals only care about one thing, and that is themselves...and they will say and do anything to get off or get released. now are there someinnocent people in jail, unfortunately yes..and hopefully they get to go free. but the real guilty ones boo hoo and get the bleeding hearts to listen and sidewith them....WHAT A SMACK IN THE FACE FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THE PROSECUTORS THAT WORKED SO HARD TO PUT THEM AWAY!!!!!! and that is what really chaps my assand fires me up!!!!!!<br><br>the way the laws should be set up is....three strikes and your DEAD...for any type of crime you commit. maybe that would solve the problem with multiple overand over offenders...i don't know and neither does anyone else. but just don't think that they can cured like a cold, they can't..its their way oflife and all the know.
"why do some people think that a murder can be cured or rehabed or anything else. why would some people want these POS's vene remotely released backinto society!!!"<br><br>Rob, I know you said "some people" but I certainly didn't say any of that. However, I do think it is possible in some cases; certainly not forall.<br><br>"Greg said this, I think all criminals should be given the opportunity to be fully accountable, and fully responsible, and make amends, for their crimes,and the victims of their crimes. dude, have you ever worked or even been in a jail or prison?!!!!!!!"<br><br>I was part of a team that designed a jail (Peter J. Pitchess Detention Center in Castaic) and toured many facilities during the initial design phases; otherthan that, no, I've never been in jail. But I will tell you that even touring these places scared the crap out of me, and I understand what you'resaying about the types of people that inhabit these places...<br><br>But is it true for ALL of them, across the board? I believe that you can't make sweeping generalizations about any group of people; generalizations aregenerally untrue.<br><br>"well i have and these POS's don't give a rats ass about you or me and surely don't give a rats ass about their victim orvictims!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the only remorse they have is that they got freakin caught bro!!!!! and thats the truth...believe it!!!!!"<br><br>First, let me say that I have the deepest respect for you for having worked in a prison. I certainly couldn't do it. And I sincerely thank you for yourservice to society in that way. And I also agree with what you're saying - most criminals have no remorse. But I'm not advocating that these people bemade to "feel remorse" - I am advocating that they be made to be accountable, in some way, for what they've done. If you kill them, that'snever a possibility. And it is possible - it happens all the time.<br><br>"the way the laws should be set up is....three strikes and your DEAD...for any type of crime you commit."<br><br>Dude, I hope you don't really believe that.... rob a 7-11 store three times and get put to death??
Greg, thanks you for your kind words, i actually started off in the county jail and had to bid out, been on patrol for almost 8 yrs, and a deputy since 1997,but been with the county since 1994, and yes i meant it about the three strikes and you are dead!!!! who's to say that the next time he robs the 7-11 storehe doesn't shoot someone. some poor mother of three stoppin to to get a gallon of milk after work, she surprises the perp with the gun and bang...shesdead. thats my point exactly...if he was dead, the 7-11 wouldn't have been robbed and the mother would still be alive. this is the way i look at it, pettycrimes evolve into larger, more violent crimes. and the perps are mostly multi offenders because why, they get slapped on the wrist and are like what are theygonna do to me, put me in prison or jail for a year...big whoop!!! that is how these people think, trust me. there is no rehabing these people, they are alostcause. and that is not a generalization..thats pretty much across the board. you won't believe how many times in the three years i was in the jail i sawthe same faces over and over and over....it's rediculous!!!! they are waste of taxpayers money and are the reasons are jails and prisons are soovercrowded. three strikes and you are DEAD would really cut down on jail and prison populations...don't ya think.<br><br>Maribell....so sorry to hear about your Uncle...thats a real shame. and that my friends is a PERFECT example of why the death penalty works, that POS thatmurdered her uncle would have not had the chance to murder three other people after the first time he had committed such a crime!
Okay! I'm back on Earth! The main question was, "what would I do as a juror?". I'd spare the life always. For the 2 most important reasonsbeing 1) I have my barbaric tendencies in check, and 2) the convicted person is separated from society. These 2 things are very important in a civilizeddemocratic society along with the rule of law. It's way cheaper to opt for a non-death penalty sentence. There's a lot less to prove beyond areasonable doubt. And maybe most importantly, if the guy is actually innocent, the state hasn't commited an horrendous mistake. It's not necessarilyabout curing anyone. Some animals belong in cages, for their entire lives unfortunately for them. Generally, whatever this male-testosterone, superman,invincible thing seems to wear off later in a guys life. That's why they're kept such lenghts of time. The very basis of our Western civilization,Christian or not, Atheist or not, Arab, Jew, Satanist, whatever, the whole things underlying constitution is that the man can be redeemed. And not jailed somuch for punishment and cure, but just to separate them for our safety! And when someone is sentenced, that sentence must stick. It's the violent criminalsthat need to be caged. Most others could be dealt with in a better fashion like mandatory community service or something, and busted right down to near streeturchin level and forced to start from nothing with nothing, and learn how to appreciate what our fathers layed out for us. There also need to be a more equaldistribution of wealth, this is very important. The US is a very competative and stressfull place. Maybe it need to slow down. And remember, the more peopleyou jam into a square kilometer, ooops 0.6 of a mile, the rougher things get. True! It's peacefull in the country. Okay enough from me right now, gonnacome back to address more soon. That Kitty sure is a mainframe! Oh wait , they're probably obsolete by now. Mmmmmmm Whatever the leading edge stuff is, isKitty! Okay,.....preparing for injection back into near Earth orbit........3....2....1....<img height="32" src="http://www.dodgetalk.com/forums/images/smilies/buttkick.gif" width="61" alt="image">>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Whhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee<img height="15" src="http://redlinesonlinemessageboard.yuku.com/domain/bypass/images/pacman.gif" width="15" alt="image">Andy
<blockquote> There also need to be a more equal distribution of wealth, this is very important.</blockquote>Nice in theory, but utter foolishness in practice. C'mon Andy, basic economics.<br><blockquote> <br> And remember, the more people you jam into a square kilometer, ooops 0.6 of a mile, the rougher things get. True! It's peacefull in the country.</blockquote>Hmmmm, the Euros seem to do all right with higher density populaces. Seems to work out pretty good here in Seattle as well.<br>It is peaceful in the country. I've lived there as well as the city and I've known some pretty violent and backwards people in the country.<br>
<blockquote> <strong class="quote-title">sverrefehn wrote:</strong> <hr><blockquote> There also need to be a more equal distribution of wealth, this is very important. </blockquote>Nice in theory, but utter foolishness in practice. C'mon Andy, basic economics. <br><blockquote> <br> And remember, the more people you jam into a square kilometer, ooops 0.6 of a mile, the rougher things get. True! It's peacefull in the country. </blockquote>Hmmmm, the Euros seem to do all right with higher density populaces. Seems to work out pretty good here in Seattle as well. <br> It is peaceful in the country. I've lived there as well as the city and I've known some pretty violent and backwards people in the country. <br></blockquote><p> The distribution of wealth thing certainly is up for debate, but not here in Rob's thread. Now, I'll meet ya part way on the roughness persq/whatever. Now I just know this will be the bomshell, what's the gun ownership laws in Europe? How about the social programming. Let me tell you also,they've sorta been tamed by the 2 seriously major wars on their soil. They've learned to get along with each other a little better maybe. And also,you're right, a lotta folks in the country do have a little more vicious thing about them. Probably due to several factors including being hardened ordesensitized from toddlerhood to killing things, like farm animals and various wild creatures. As a matter of fact, this is pretty much true. Plus anotherbombshell. In southern Ontario, pretty much most counrty people vote right wing, and the city folk vote left wing. There's just something about the USthough. Please what is it about the US? Enlighten me, please!!!! Andy<img height="15" src="http://redlinesonlinemessageboard.yuku.com/domain/bypass/images/pacman.gif" width="15" alt="image"></p>
People should not do such bad things to start with! so start by not killing someone and then you will not get killed <img height="20" src="http://www.ezboard.com/image/posticons/pi_lightbulb.gif" width="20" alt="image"><p><br>for killing.................... then non-killers will not have to kill the killers<br><br>********Yesterday in L.A. a gang banger waked by a bus stop and shot at the people waiting for a bus? Why? Was he mad at bus waiters? so he goes to shootthem!! Wow what a great Idea!!<br><br>************Now some one Please tell me why we should not take this gang bang F**K head and just save our self the time and just take him out!! Why not!! Weshould try to rehab him........LOL<br><br>Gang bangers don't care about anyone but them self and they kill for there family (the Gang).<br><br>What ever............</p>
<blockquote> what's the gun ownership laws in Europe?</blockquote>I know that in England, it is illegal to own a gun and in fact, it is illegal to defend yourself if someone breaks into your home. What's theresult of this policy? Crime is up. Violent crime, in fact - with guns.<br><br><blockquote> How about the social programming.</blockquote>Even European social programming can't overcome groups of immigrants who refuse to integrate and assimilate therefore making it difficult toearn a living. The French are grappling with this as poor Muslim communities repeatedly riot, loot, burn, and send police to the hospital.<br><br>Euro social engineering aside, as I said, it works pretty good here in Seattle though the unfortunate result is rapidly increasing real estate prices.<br><br>What is it about the US you want to know?<br>
<img height="20" src="http://mmb.maverick.to/images/smilies/hmmm.gif" width="20" alt="image">I can't quite put my finger on what it is, but I thinkit's something to do with the intensity of a demanding society. A very high sense of competition is really instilled into the American psyche, which, hasimmense benefits for advancement, but when you couple that with this gotta have it all American Dream thing, there seems to be a lotta loosers too. I'm notknockin' the work ethic and the desire to live life comfortably, but you gotta admit that it's really gone overboard with a lotta people. I dunno! Inthat bird thread the Bald Eagle was mentioned as a symbol. Symbols are powerful messages if you really think about what it is and represents. The eagle is theAmerican King of the Jungle as is the British lion, or the Russian Bear. These animals take what they want from wherever they want whenever they want, and noneof the lesser species have any say over their own fate. It symbolizes that the US is the Top-O-The-Food-Chain. Scary, but kinda fascinating at the same time.The US, and particularly Southern California is the dead center of the Universe. And maybe as far as we are concerned, Hawthorne, if that's the place Ithink HotWheels were first made<img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/happy.gif" alt="image">! Greed is a force in the Universe notunlike gravity, being a drawing inward thing, that has been cultivated, fertilzed, and harvested really more-so in the US than anywhere else I can think of.It's called creation of wealth. If that gravitational field suddenly jumps to Asia, it'll turn the world on it's head. The US will become theEurope of N. America. Who's gonna spank China when need be. I'll say, I dig the US when they sent the 5th fleet or something to the waters of Taiwan tosend China the Yosemite Sam,.............. BACK OFF! That was in defence of Democracy, inwhich the rule of law is one of the most, most , most importanttenets. The very type of society I think most people really don't realize the importance of and how lucky they really are. You can thank the Mesopotamians(Iraqis) for settin' up the town, The Jews for creating a sense of humanity, and The Greeks for the Institution of Democracy. Andy<img height="15" src="http://redlinesonlinemessageboard.yuku.com/domain/bypass/images/pacman.gif" width="15" alt="image"><p><br></p>
<p> And you can thank Germany for Schprokets Mit Deiter<a class="image" title="A guest obliges Dieter's request to "touch my monkey"" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Snl89188.jpg"><img class="thumbimage" height="144" alt="A guest obliges Dieter's request to "touch my monkey"" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1c/Snl89188.jpg/180px-Snl89188.jpg" width="180" border="0"></a></p>
Maribell and Dan: perfect examples of exactly what I mean. I'm not talking about people who have been busted a few times for growing a few plants on theirpatio. I gave a prime example of the type I feel cannot be rehabilitated - a convicted child molester, out in the population once again, living in a trailerwith others with felony convictions (not registered at that address, either!). He kidnapped a little girl in the middle of the night <em>from her ownbedroom</em>. The people living with him knew damn good and well what he was doing with the child. He repeatedly raped and tortured her, depriving her ofsunlight (kept her in a closet), food, water and bathroom visits. When he tired of using her as some sick effin toy, he buried her, ALIVE, right next to thetrailer and covered the shallow grave with fallen leaves. She died from the abuse and from suffocation.<br><br>Now would someone please tell me WHY the guy should be allowed to live. He can't be rehabilitated. It's been shown through more studies than many othersubjects that repeat sex offenders can <strong>not</strong> be cured or rehabilitated. So we're supposed to spend money to house the guy in a safe place inprison, away from genpop, with more comfort than our fricking SOLDIERS in Afghanistan and Iraq live under? Give me a effin break.<br><br>As I already mentioned, there are cases when people should be given understanding and forgiven, but some banger who shoots up a bus stop full of people for themere sport of killing (or gang initiation)? Hell no!<br><br>Now, that social programming bit and country living versus city living. I have a few examples for this one:<br><br>1. I lived in an extremely crowded city of over seven (yes, 7) million people, and that was in 1974. The crime rate was VERY low. One of the main reasons was,if you got put in jail there, you damn well better have family to come feed your sorry butt because otherwise, you have to fight the rats for scraps, or use ascrap to catch a rat and make dinner out of that. State-run prisons weren't much better. Rice and water was provided, as was the occasional doughy wheatroll, but other than that, again, no family, you don't need a "Sweatin to the Oldies" video set.<br><br>That was for basic crimes. If you were caught with illegal drugs, especially heroin or cocaine, chances were about 99.99 percent that you wouldn't livepast another 30 days. Court systems there did not have a backlog of cases. If the evidence showed you to be guilty, the judge would skip the trial and sentenceyou on the spot. You'd have maybe two days to say goodbye to your family before facing the firing squad. Rapists were treated with even less respect. Itwould be announced in the newspapers that some guy had shamed his family, his friends, his employer and his people, by committing such a violent act and is nowa eunuch, spending life in prison. That means his lifespan was probably less than a few weeks, as inevitably, another prisoner already facing the firing squadwould exert his hatred for someone who was waaaaay worse than himself in whatever way possible. Many would consider that barbaric but again, crime there waslow enough that even a 14-year-old foreign girl could walk the streets at night with little worry. That is, until the US announced that they were pulling theirmilitary support out of the country in order to normalise relations with China. Another story, another time..<br><br>The point of all the above is to demonstrate how people living elbow-to-elbow can still live peacefully. It's part of their culture. Their upbringing isdifferent. If a kid gets in trouble, they are punished. If they cannot stay out of trouble, they are sent to a military type of boarding school. It's partof their <em>culture</em> to be peaceful and settle things as evolved human beings.<br><br>2) Culture shock. We moved from the Capital city of seven million people in Taiwan, to a little fleaspeck on the map in southwestern Oklahoma with a populationof maybe 27,000. The local joke about their consistent population was, every time a baby was born a man left town. It wasn't far from the truth. Plenty ofsingle mothers there, mostly quite ignorant and having made those babies when they too were still babies. One girl I knew in school was a year older than herown aunt, and her mother was only 13 years older than she was. No kidding. Box o' hamsters. So, we had all these local boys who grew up without a fatherand a mother barely old enough to buy booze, running amok. The vast majority of them were white. Most of my friends were black and the majority of them stillhad fathers present in their lives. They were far more decent people than the white trash we Air Force brats went to school with. The crime rate in that townwas pretty high, although convictions were more likely to be against black people than whites. Yes, I lived in Crackertown, where white men drove pickup truckswith rebel flags in the rear windows, along with either a rifle, shotgun, or "walking stick" (referred to as a "(n-word) knocker").<br><br>This is all but one example of how things can be flip-flopped on the nature vs nurture debate. In this case, it's a little of both, but more demonstrativeof proper nurturing producing upstanding citizens, while lack of nurturing and ignorance produces criminals and people really not worthy of populating thisplanet.<br><br>So where was I going with all this? The main point of all this is, there <em>can</em> exist a society - even a crowded one - that is peaceful. I'm all fortrying to rehabilitate people. I understand mental illness. As I mentioned in a previous discussion, I know a lot about it through both study of the subjectand personal experience. I understand that some people can <em>not</em> be rehabilitated. Some deserve to be cared for and treated with kindness andunderstanding, but <em>many</em> do not. There is no cure, no treatment... nothing that can be done so that they can be a productive and peaceful member ofsociety and not repeatedly commit violent crimes. Those are the people who are the reason I am for the death penalty. They have absolutely no redeeming valueto society or this planet. Worm chow, baby.<br><br>To bring all this back around to the beginning (yaaaaay!), again, my decision would be for the death penalty of Cutts. He was a law officer. He knew damn goodand well what the rules are and he tried to get past them, and it was his own son who helped to bring him down. "Mommy's in the rug" he said.Cutts is not worthy of forgiveness. He thought he could escape the law and got caught. He murdered someone out of selfishness, including his own unborn child.He deserves to die for his crime.
<blockquote> but more demonstrative of proper nurturing producing upstanding citizens, while lack of nurturing and ignorance produces criminals and people really not worthy of populating this planet.</blockquote>Well dayum, that just cuts to the crux of the matter right there.<br><br>Andy - a very thoughtful post and respectfully written. I like this version of you much better than the sarcastic one.<br>What you said is essentially what I tried to tell you a few months ago. You start off talking about the US but then talk about humanity in general and itspropensity for certain forms of greed. You say that it's more advanced here because of our economy, but seem to recognize it as a trait that all peoplegroups are prone to and actively seeking. In your earlier posts(months ago), you came off as seeing this as a uniquely American trait, which a number of ustook exception to. If I read you correctly now, you are spreading the salt on everyone.<br><br>That I can agree with.<br>
<blockquote> <strong class="quote-title">BlueWagoon wrote:</strong> <hr><img height="20" alt="image" src="http://mmb.maverick.to/images/smilies/hmmm.gif" width="20">I can't quite put my finger on what it is, but I think it's something to do with the intensity of a demanding society. A very high sense of competition is really instilled into the American psyche, which, has immense benefits for advancement, but when you couple that with this gotta have it all American Dream thing, there seems to be a lotta loosers too. I'm not knockin' the work ethic and the desire to live life comfortably, but you gotta admit that it's really gone overboard with a lotta people. I dunno! In that bird thread the Bald Eagle was mentioned as a symbol. Symbols are powerful messages if you really think about what it is and represents. The eagle is the American King of the Jungle as is the British lion, or the Russian Bear. These animals take what they want from wherever they want whenever they want, and none of the lesser species have any say over their own fate. It symbolizes that the US is the Top-O-The-Food-Chain. Scary, but kinda fascinating at the same time. The US, and particularly Southern California is the dead center of the Universe. And maybe as far as we are concerned, Hawthorne, if that's the place I think HotWheels were first made<img alt="image" src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/happy.gif">! Greed is a force in the Universe not unlike gravity, being a drawing inward thing, that has been cultivated, fertilzed, and harvested really more-so in the US than anywhere else I can think of. It's called creation of wealth. If that gravitational field suddenly jumps to Asia, it'll turn the world on it's head. The US will become the Europe of N. America. Who's gonna spank China when need be. I'll say, I dig the US when they sent the 5th fleet or something to the waters of Taiwan to send China the Yosemite Sam,.............. BACK OFF! That was in defence of Democracy, inwhich the rule of law is one of the most, most , most important tenets. The very type of society I think most people really don't realize the importance of and how lucky they really are. You can thank the Mesopotamians (Iraqis) for settin' up the town, The Jews for creating a sense of humanity, and The Greeks for the Institution of Democracy. Andy<img height="15" alt="image" src="http://redlinesonlinemessageboard.yuku.com/domain/bypass/images/pacman.gif" width="15"><br></blockquote><p> Wow, I thought this thread died yesterday! Well, I did enjoy reading both what Kitty and Greg had to say, although I don't agree with Greg, I doappreciate an intelligently written argument that stays on topic.<br><br>I see Andy is still bouncing around off topic and his most recent stop seems to be that he has US envy! That is okay, it is fairly common!<img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/roll.gif" alt="image"></p>
Yeah, we made it, finally! Drinks on me!<br><a target="_blank" href="http://news.aol.com/story/_a/record-number-of-americans-in-prison/20080228163909990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001">http://news.aol.com/story/_a/record-number-of-americans-in-prison/20080228163909990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001</a><br><br>Until we change the system, gangsters are still goin to walk up to a crowded bus stop and blast 8 people, including children, with lil thought towards thefuture. The reason is simple, in the US, prison isn't really that bad. Here, you get to hang with your homies-which they do on the outside-right? They getas much, if not more drugs-which they do on the outside-right? If they're married, they get a little nuckie during their conjucal visits while locked up.They don't have to work hard-which is what they do on the outside-right? They get fed better, they get plenty of beauty rest per night, which theydon't get on the streets. They get to ride the gangtrain, which is actually harder to do on the streets. They even get to wear almost the same cloths asthey do on the streets. And it's so hard to get the DP these days, you have to be a real sorry POS to earn that.<br>Until we change how it's run, start making serious standards for X crime with serious punishments, and take away the society in the joint, nothins'getting any better. I'd bet serious cash, the Blood or Crip that shot or killed 8 at a bus stop yesterday, never deals with the DP, not even for a second.How many lives were changed yesterday because of him? And he deserves what again-a chance? He deserves his own PPV special, just $19.95!
<br><span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"><font size="7">Running Man!</font></span><br>I like Chris' PPV idea! Even better take a portion of the proceeds and donate them to families of the victims. Only $19.95 per show eh? Sign me up!<br>
I want to clarify, the $19.95 is for singles, if there's a full card and undercard, it's $49.95 for the package. High Schools would be given thepackage for free of course. Start televising what happens to serious criminals. Change the prison system entirely, PINK one piece swimsuits for EVERYONE-trybeing a tuff guy in a unitard. Bread and water per meals, accept for rice and beans for Taco Tuesdays (I got a heart too). Non serious offenders work 12 hoursa day, everyday. No conjucal visits EVER. No TV's. Tattoo removal is mandatory. GED is mandatory. College education for those doing more than 5years-mandatory. Lifers would be given the choice of their own PPV special or a trip to the hole for their ENTIRE tenure-no Taco Tuesdays for them either!<br>Why is this so hard anyway?
Prisons would also be safer if inmates wore pink unitards. A lot harder to conceal a shank in skin tight clothes.<br>