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06-18-2008, 08:19 AM
PeepingScott

<blockquote> You are no better than the guy who stayed at your home then betrayed you online,</blockquote>Really now? I'm leaving for the airport for vacation and don't have time to respond to your comments there Kitty. You seem very angryand are bringing up something new to me about someone. Perhaps you should edit it out? Comparing me to Ed and Caitlin? Wow...thanks so much for thecompliment, made my day. I'm outta here for a few days and probably can't respond, so have a nice day. You sure have a lot to say, what a surprise! I didn't compare gays to beastiality either, you did. I gave an example of what could be next, so get your panties out of it'sbunch...sheeeeeeeesh...hit a hot button topic here...the switch has been turned "on"...<img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/ohwell.gif" alt="image"> <img src="http://www.ezboard.com/image/posticons/pi_freak.gif" alt="image">
06-18-2008, 10:06 AM
Charger68

Ahh........... The old "I'm leaving for the airport for vacation and don't have time to comments" line? LOLOL!!!! Have a good time Scotty,we'll leave the light on for ya and your spot on the whipping post vacant!! Later, Dave
06-18-2008, 10:35 AM
camarocrazy2

Good Morning Message board!! Yawwwwwn......... Wow we are looking chippy today!!....bright eye and bushhy tales!! well lets just get right back to the topic at hand.... Texkitty Said:<blockquote> 4) Stop gay from being in them? Dude, WTF are you smoking? Seriously! Do you actually believe that gays can "become" straight? Do you believe that black people can "become" white (or brown, or sallow)? </blockquote> I don't think any color of any people need to change in any way!! WTF was this, are you getting silly here? That was not called for.
06-18-2008, 10:39 AM
99octane

Good morning ... I slept well, how about all of you? <img src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif"> I had to add this: about the "God and religion argument" against same-sex sexuality. And I will limit this comment to one simple paradox of fact vs. faith. The primary religious objection stems from the "big 3", meaning Christianity, Islam and Judaism - and are all sprung from the same root religion, which originated in what was (and still is) the most misogynistic culture on the planet. The root teachings of this religion do indeed condemn homosexuality in a few places, but if you have the courage to look at the same passages (such as Leviticus in the old testament), you will also find instructions on how heterosexual men should demean and repress women. You will find recipies for hatred and scorn everywhere in the same texts. But WOSRT OF ALL, and an absolute religion killer for Christians and their cousins, in ever using their religion as an "argument" why people should not be gay or why gay people should be "lesser" or "held in check", (denied the same rights) is the FACT that their religion teaches that animals have no souls, and are here for the consumption and use of man. If that is true, there is no reason, NO reason within this religious framework, why there should be ANY gay animals AT ALL WHATSOEVER. What twisted purpose is there to this "God" making gay animals, if it's so wrong, and there is no soul to be saved or damned? Even good 'ol Satan has no motivation. And you can't say "to temp man", because it's a mammal trait, and there have been other mammals that were here before we were (fact) that still exist today, and exhibit same sex sexuality in about the same percentage of their population as we do. So unless you're going to argue that gay wolves and apes turned some early humans gay .... There is simply no basis at all whatsoever for special religious rules regarding humans vs. animals when it comes to homosexuality - it's a mammallian trait, and we, boys and girls are mammals. 7% to 10%. That's the number. BONOBO CHIMPANZEES. Spend a few minutes Googling "Bonobo Chimpanzee" and read about them. They are more closely related to human beings than any species on the planet. They use sex to deal with everything. They hump eachother when bored, or to say hello. And the incidence of same-sex activity in Bonobos is even higher than in Humans. So if you religious folk think Bonobo Chimpanzees are human, pray for their souls. If you think they are animals and have no souls, why are there gay Bonobos? Did Satan tempt them, when there is no soul to "win"? Or did Satan make them do these gay things to tempt humans, who do (allegedly) have a soul, into copying their behavior and do the same? I don't know about you, but I, as a male, am not sexually attracted to Bonobo females. {Photo removed at the request of the board owner.} Sorry to be so graphic there, but any perceived shame is yours. This animal is just doing what comes naturally. It's because it's body and pose looks close to human that we project our own hang-ups and insecurities and think Greg just posted beastiality somehow. Wrong. Are you afraid to change your clothes in front of your dog? <img src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif">
06-18-2008, 10:48 AM
chrish284

Wow. I really can't fathom the level that some will go to, just to have their opinion expressed. So, 2 gays gals beat a child, so no kids for gays, at all? I would contend, hetro's are much tougher on their children (proof-also from our great state too): <a target="_blank" href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25179632/">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25179632/</a> The fact that some of you have pretended that lines will now be drawn to allow for dogs to marry X, and for X to marry a child, is really disgusting-YOU NEED MAJOR HELP. The line is very C. L. E. A. R. in the sand, and NO dogs or kids will ever be wed-AH DUH. The line has been drawn and set, no whatif's either. NAMBA as a reference, are you effin serious? The notion that all gays are into X deviant is another feather in the cap of the fool. Read the above statement, because for every crime you can produce at the hand of a gay, there is 50 X that amount for hetro's. Pay attention, your NOT BETTER than anyone, because you like the opposite sex. Just like your NOT better because of your skin tone, your belief system, your location, etc. Just a few decades ago, in my lifetime, blacks and whites weren't allowed to wed. That is pretty damn dumb looking back, and if you too have a problem with that, add another feather to your fools cap. Go back a tad further, and these damn women and their voting rights! Add another feather-ok. True, the voting body might overturn this (again) but in 10-20 years, most (not some of your fossils of course) will look back and hold this in the same regard as interracial marriages. I didn't marry outside of my race per se (I look white), but I had not problem if she had come along either. I tried! We the people are always voting for X, and then the governing body says, not on my watch. Do your homework on this, because you can find countless issues to debate. I'm not gay, but who am I to tell some adult they can't enjoy the same mess we hetros' enjoy in "blissful marriages?" Adults, not kids, not your German Shepherd, not 3 girls and one man, simple one on one unions. Keep this thread civil, and be respectful, and it's all good. Anymore references to open toed shoes, could get this shut down. I just don't want my Lakerbrother to have a health issue over this, because we're so close to summer, I know he's on edge as is. Live and let live, within the laws, not a hard concept to get with. CA law has be written, but we weren't the first anyway. Regards, C
06-18-2008, 10:54 AM
chrish284

Greg, do you really need visuals? Your being part of the problem, not the solution! Remove the pic, before I have to see one of your local primate tuggin'on his meat-since you DECIDE go there. Give me a effin' break already. Big picture player, not your tiny picture. Thanks. C
06-18-2008, 11:08 AM
Drtoronto

Wow some of yall should never even think about moving to Canada yall would have a heart attach living here!! Man in the big picture does any of that stuff matter ??? This gay stuff is not new im pretty sure they have being around for a bit. life is life people are people i say whatever turns there crank or floats there boat <img src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif"> My wife who comes form a deep catholic up bringing gets freaked out by this stuff ie gay marriage me on the other hand could care less im more concerned aboutwhere i can get my next cheese burger <img src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif">
06-18-2008, 11:13 AM
99octane

<blockquote> Greg, ...Your being part of the problem, not the solution!</blockquote> Oh really Chris? I'm part of the problem? By posting a photo of an animal ... nude? <img src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif"> ... or by actually making sense, and being calm, respectfully explaining myself to everyone? How am I part of the problem here Chris?
06-18-2008, 11:14 AM
redlinejohnny6872

Mmmmmmmmm, cheeseburgers..........<img height="16" src="http://redlinesonlinemessageboard.yuku.com/domain/bypass/images/rockon.gif" width="47" alt="image"> I hear In N Out calling meeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!<img height="27" src="http://mmb.maverick.to/images/smilies/yahoo.gif" width="42" alt="image">
06-18-2008, 11:15 AM
camarocrazy2

See Greg I really don't think you have much more to say, as you really want this thread to close... Chris, That is a very sad story and makes me very angry, I have no problem with the cops shooting the man!!! Maybe my reference to the two women beating the boy has been taken out of context. Oh cheese burgers......ummmmm I will take two, if I can pay you on Tuesday....<img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/tongue.gif" alt="image">
06-18-2008, 11:37 AM
chrish284

Greg, Please, there is zero wrong with your pic, it was the "door" that it opened. You see, because you went there, someone will follow and one up it.That's why I said, BIG picture, not your little picture. It's not hard to conceive either, as you know the primate jackin' his unit was about topost at any minute. (see). I love animal nudity, just like you, but others may see it differently. Think of the bigger picture please. And mucho gracias..... Regards, C
06-18-2008, 11:43 AM
99octane

Okee dokee Chris, I actually have to say that your response was kinder than I expected, and I also have to say I agreed fully with you earlier post, the one right before you told me to remove the photo. I understand. No more opening doors. <img src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif"> Thanks for the clarification, I just hate being censored, so I bounced up ready to sling hash with ya. Thanks for explaining yourself Chris.-Greg
06-18-2008, 11:45 AM
beauzoe

Doc & Johnny, I'm off to get a Cheeseburger! C
06-18-2008, 01:58 PM
groggerbug

Dan, I've got something to say to you here, and I'm going to say it in 'public' just because you've been so central in this discussion... I've hung out with you quite a few times, and I know you to be a fun-loving, good guy who loves to laugh and joke, and is very easy to like and get alongwith. I certainly always look forward to seeing you at any of the local gatherings, and all your cool purp's! So I was very surprised at your remarks about gays.... and I'm curious where all that homocentric (thinking that being heterosexual is 'right' andanything else is 'wrong') and homophobic (fear of homosexuals) sentiment comes from? You said (something like) that you don't want to get rid of homosexuals, just want to get rid of the homosexual in them. That's actually very profound,in a way... On the one hand I'm encouraged to know that you're not simply hating the individual because they are gay; on the other hand, I think thatsentiment is spoken out of simply not knowing much about homosexuality. And I think your fear of homosexuality has prevented you from learning anything aboutit. It's been said already, but I want to reiterate here - homosexuality is NOT behavioral, it is inate. I'm not gay, so I can't say so from personalexperience, but I've known many, many homosexual folks, and I know it to be true. I lived with a gay couple for almost 1-1/2 years, and it was one of the really fabulous experiences in my life. Most importantly for me, I learned that thereis no reason to "fear" homosexuals, or homosexuality. If you are secure in your sexuality, there is nothing to fear. So I hope you can believe me when I say that the "homosexuality in people can't be taken out of them" and in that I'm hoping to appeal toyour loving nature, which I know is there... I see it in every other aspect of you... I wrote all this because I know you and like you, and because it sounds like you've opened the door to wanting to know more about it... and I sincerelyhope that you will. Others here have shown their willingness to go there with you; take us up on it! Because I can tell you from personal experience, as a guy who in his life has hated just about anything that wasn't just like me.... I have learned the wayof acceptance, and I can tell you that life is much sweeter when you can feel love, rather than againstness. Your friend, Greg(bug)
06-18-2008, 02:25 PM
JEBlade

Rob Halford & Elton John rule. John
06-18-2008, 02:51 PM
99octane

Freddie Mercury too!
06-18-2008, 03:05 PM
JEBlade

<blockquote> 99octane wrote: <hr> Freddie Mercury too!</blockquote> Not anymore. <img src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif"> John
06-18-2008, 03:13 PM
GrampaMike46

Hello everybodeeee. Wow. Things certainly did get touchy and off topic here. Scott's original post seemed simply to be a rant against the courts going against the voters sothat is the topic I'm going to address. When each and every state joined the union, they agreed to abide by the US Constitution. California joined in 1850. Now, 158 years later, 61% of Californiansdecide they want to pass a law that that does not abide by that constitution and the courts turned them down saying "ah ah ah, you can't do that. Youtried to pull a fast one. That's unconstitutional". So, where's the problem Scott? (I know you're away from your desk but maybe you'll catch up when you get back.) If 61% of Californians tried topass a law saying it was ok to own slaves would you also rant when the courts overturned that? Or if 61% of Californians tried to pass a law saying womencan't vote would you rant when the courts overturned it? Here's an idea... 61% of Californians could vote to secede from the union then they would notbe obligated to follow the US constitution anymore and could pass any law imaginable. If you don't approve of everyone having the same rights maybe youought to work on that. Or if the California constitution is too restrictive for you maybe you could get 61% of the people in your county to vote to secede fromthe state! Then you might have a reasonable chance of realizing your dream - King Scott! (Not to be confused with Coretta Scott King.) Now for the off-topic topics. --------------- WTF? Why do so many people keep insisting on trying to run other peoples lives????? 61% don't want gays to marry????? Mind your own business! Live and letlive! Do unto others as you would have them do unto you! If some people want to voice their negative opinions of certain minorities, fine. I don't care if you say you don't like gays, blacks, Arabs, Persians(Iran), Asians etc. Say what you want. Say what you feel. If you're any kind of a bigot, fine. You have that right. Just stop trying to run their lives (orending their lives). ALL people have the right to run their own lives. --------------- <blockquote> Hitler had an opinion based on morals? Are you serious?</blockquote>"I am acting as the agent of ourCreator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work." ~ Adolf Hitler"Secular schools can never be toleratedbecause such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all charactertraining and religion must be derived from faith.... We need believing people." ~ Adolf Hitler"I would like to thank Providence and the Almighty for choosing me of all people to be allowed to wage this battle forGermany." ~ Adolf HitlerHitler believed he was doing his Christian duty by stopping Jews from trying to takeover Germany. He simply failed to recognize the difference between Religious Zionism and Political Zionism and tried to remove or imprison all Jews instead ofthe few who actually were causing problems. And <a title="84.6%" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler#Removal_of_remaining_limits">84.6%</a> of the electorate agreed with him. Way more than 61%.Just like some of you believe you are doing your "Christian" duty by stopping all gaysfrom marrying. Where does history tell us it goes from there? You say it can't happen here? Look at yourselves. It already is happening. ---------------Cheesburger? Mmmmmmm. BARBECUED cheeseburger.---------------Gramps
06-18-2008, 03:37 PM
camarocrazy2

Just a few thoughts as a lot has crossed through my mind as I have gone back and reread much of what I have typed. Some of what I have said has been taken out of context and other things I have said were expressed in anger and due to said anger may have come out wrong orshould not have been said. I have learned something from this as I wished to. but before I express what I think I have learned a few words about me and what I know about gay first hand. I worked in retail my whole life, in a Drug Store. In the early 1990's there was a young adult man that was gay he was about 19 or twenty. He likedworking in the cosmetic department and did a fine job. I did not like gay people then but I did not let anyone know as I was a asst manager for the store so Ihad to work with all kinds of people. I did not mistreat him or do anything other to him then what I would do to anyone else he did what he did and so did I. I don't want to see anyone get hurt or mistreated due to them being gay just as I don't want to see anyone get hurt just because they like a Bostonbasketball team... I have been to gay bars as I had Friends in punk rock bands and they would play where ever they could and I would go where ever they played I did not like togo to these bars as I am not gay so I don't really need gay guys asking me out. I don't run around town with a shirt on that says I don't like gay people for the most part I don't see them and they don't bother me. I haveseen a few come in and shop and my stores when I had a job but they were happy together and did not ask me to join in holding hands or anything just as thenice strait couple do not ether.. I can see most of you don't car if people are gay and I can see why worry about it, it's not making your life any different. Have you ever had a gay man or woman ask you out a giggle about how cute you are, would you like that if a gay man found you hot and wanted to be with you. I had a girlfriend that liked to go both ways she had a girl Friend when I was dating her I was seventeen she was eighteen.....nice.... Anyway I'm going to make this my last post on the thread as I have said all I can and learned some. 1. You can't change someone who is gay just because you don't like it. 2. You can't change someone who don't like gay, just stay away from me please. 3. not all gay people were born gay. 4. no one will mind having a gay couple living next to them until one of them try something with you. 5. just for the record I'm am not a religious person, I don't go to church, I don't follow any religious belief of any kind but just the samedon't come knocking on my door, I will find it if I need it. Greg, I hope you don't dislike me because I don't care for gay people or to see them get married, I just don't like the whole Idea of twopeople of the same sex embracing each other in that way. it's just the way I am and like I said, I would not go around letting everyone know how I fillnormally but I have here today. I'm not going to have a non-gay parade or anything like that just as gays don't need to have a gay parade. So that is it I'm going to bow out, I'm not really that good at this going back forth stuff and all the quotes and so on so I will leave it to thesmarter here and a good thing to cuz I was called stupid and other things and it hurt my feeling.
06-18-2008, 04:08 PM
jamwood1

<blockquote> GrampaMike46 wrote: <hr> <blockquote> Hitler had an opinion based on morals? Are you serious? </blockquote> "I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work." ~ Adolf Hitler "Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith.... We need believing people." ~ Adolf Hitler "I would like to thank Providence and the Almighty for choosing me of all people to be allowed to wage this battle for Germany." ~ Adolf Hitler Hitler believed he was doing his Christian duty by stopping Jews from trying to take over Germany. He simply failed to recognize the difference between Religious Zionism and Political Zionism and tried to remove or imprison all Jews instead of the few who actually were causing problems. And <a title="84.6%" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler#Removal_of_remaining_limits">84.6%</a> of the electorate agreed with him. Way more than 61%.</blockquote> First of all, I was talking about morality, not religion. Second, all of the quotes Hitler made were all part of his propaganda-and it worked. You cannothonestly believe that Hitler thought he was doing his Christian duty by killing millions of Jews. He said what he had to so the people would be on hisside-and it worked. Saddam was known to be a secular leader, but whenever he needed to rally his people, he wold claim that it was Allah's will and Allahwas behind him and so on. We all know what a load of crap that was. I am not a religious person, but I have a sense of morality. The two can in fact be separate, since it is just your idea of right and wrong and has nothing todo with religion. The original point I was trying to make is if you are going to argue that we should be tolerant of others and their lifestyles and opinions, then that shouldmean everyone, not just people you agree with. Saying how tolerant you are one minute, and then calling someone you disagree with closed minded the next is abit ridiculous. I am very center, neither right or left, and actually am very tolerant of everyone. Does that mean I agree with all? Of course not. I will argue a point, asI am now, but I think at some point we should agree to disagree and not use generalizations to describe people we can't agree with.
06-18-2008, 05:09 PM
groggerbug

Jamie, sheesh.... morality can be derived from society, religion, philosophy, individual conscience, etc., or any and all of the above. And yes; I really DOthink Hitler believed he was doing his Christian duty. The KKK feels they are doing their Christian duty too. And about the other point - tolerance is one thing; pointing out narrow-minded thinking is another. I'll admit there are things that I am narrow-mindedabout, and I don't mind it being pointed out to me. In fact, I welcome it - it just means there's something else for me to learn. If you go back a few and read my last post to Dan (camarocrazy) see if you think I'm being intolerant. I love the guy and ABSOLUTELY I support his right tobelieve whatever he wants to believe, but I WILL continue to point out to him where I believe he is mistaken in his thinking. It absolutely DOES NOT meanI'm being intolerant of him. As you said, I am disagreeing with him. If Hitler were alive I would be tolerant of him too; and I would support EVEN HIS right to believe what he wants to believe. But the depth of my disagreementwith his way of thinking would make sure he was locked up so he could do no harm to society! And to Dan - heavens no, I don't dislike you. And I'm sorry that your feelings have been hurt. If I was responsible for that, I apologize. If ithasn't been made clear by what I've already said, I may disagree with your thinking and believe you are being narrow-minded (like ALL of ussometimes....) but it absolutely does not mean I don't like you. You're a great guy! Greg
06-18-2008, 05:50 PM
deputyrob

i love Elton John's music!!
06-18-2008, 06:09 PM
6pak69

Kitty said ... "6pak69 Mike, always there with your ignorant views. It was expected, but this time you went beyond ignorance to the point of sheerstupidity. True, legal gay marriage comes with baggage; that much I will agree with you. There's that nasty divorce issue that can come with it, butthat's as far as my agreement with you goes. Gay couples already adopt children all over this nation, as well as many others. You make it sound likewe're all out to infect children with our homosexuality, as though it's a disease. Many of us share the same general value systems that you do, and inmany cases, I venture to say a more wholesome set of values. Certainly, I don't see homosexuals raising children to be intolerant fanatics like you, whobelieve that their way is the only way." I'll tell you what Kitty, read my post. Now read your post.Now tell me who the intolerant fanatic is.You have consistently posted angry,intolerant, andbelow the belt opinions regarding Christianity. Now you are outraged when some of us dare to criticize something you believe strongly. I had no idea that youare gay.So my comments cannot be taken as personal.I do claim the same right that you are claiming, however. Namely, to criticize another persons opinion. Iwill always do so respectfully however.I invite you to do the same. I have gay and lesbian friends whom I am very fond of. Every one of them is aware of myposition.Yet we remain friends.They appear much more comfortable with their chosen lifestyle than you do. If your angry and outraged post is any indication,that is. I view your post as the response of someone who feels ashamed inwardly of what they believe.You have taken every opportunity to slash myself and mybeliefs to ribbons. Yet I would never think of referring to you as ignorant or stupid. You are merely wrong.
06-18-2008, 06:27 PM
6pak69

Gramps.Your Hitler quotes are taken completely out of context. They are most certainly not evidence that Hitler was a Christian.Or that he embraced theteachings of Christ. If you feel that Hitler was acting consistently with Christs teachings, please refer us to the related passages from the Bible in whichChrist supports the activities that Hitler was involved in. Even the most casual study of Hitler and what he believed will show you that Hitler was attemptingto organize a national church under his supreme authority. He imprisoned or hung many of the clergy who attempted to stop him. Placing puppet religous leadersin positions of authority. The big issue for you Gramps is this. What basis do you have for viewing the actions of Hitler as morally wrong? Lets say that he had the support of 61 percentof the German people.
06-18-2008, 06:36 PM
jamwood1

Greg, I realize morality can come from religion, but I meant, as you state yourself, It is not solely a product of religion but of very many elements we havecollectively encountered in our lives. Believe it or not, you and I are probably not that far off in what our personal beliefs are. Between the fact Idon't always express myself in writing the way I mean to, and the fact that I like to play devil's advocate, it may not always seem thatway......except for the Hitler thing, can't agree with you that he thought he was doing right by his Christian beliefs. <img src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif">
06-18-2008, 06:48 PM
CHEVY57

<blockquote> #1 - homosexuality is NOT a choice or a "lifestyle". It's hard wired into the brain, </blockquote> Maybe in a SMALL percentage and but not all of them that's for sure. Most make a choice. A friend of ours is a Lesbian and she had a bad experience with a family member when she was a kid. She was then turned off to men. And if you hear mostlesbians stories they are the same. Therefore it is a choice.. a lifestyle plain and simple. As with everything else, this marriage thing is also about money period. They want medical coverage for there mates. If they want to marry I say let 'em why shouldn't they be just as miserable as us.
06-18-2008, 06:59 PM
CHEVY57

also about making a choice, having this whole lifestyle out of the closet and mainstream makes it more acceptble for the nerdy kids that can't get a datein high school to "try it" there is another choice to be made.
06-18-2008, 07:13 PM
99octane

Chevy57, you are in fact wrong about whether homosexuality is a choice (you say it is only in a minority). The sexual orientation of the individual is NOT a choice in the vast VAST majority of instances, but how it is expressed, if at all, is where personal choice comes in. Same with heterosexual people. Are there straight people who are into some pretty kinky stuff who keep that aspect of their sexuality "in the closet"? You better believe there are. Just like there are ones who are so open about themselves, you wish they wouldn't be. <img src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif"> But the fact that they are HETEROsexual wasn't a choice, was it? The same is true of the vast majority of homosexual people. What you're attracted to isn't really up to you. What you do about it, if anything, is your choice. -Greg
06-18-2008, 07:25 PM
CHEVY57

So you're saying that all the women that were abused by men at a young age just happened to be Gay? not most of them swore off men from that day on. Thisis fact coming from the woman themselves. Then like I said all the awkward kids the nerds the ones that don't fit in and never had a date, they are more willing to try the gay life just to fit in.Instead of waiting to outgrow it like we all did. They make a choice too.
06-18-2008, 07:41 PM
99octane

Why on Earth do you think Lesbians are gay because men abused them?? And you think that explains a majority of the Lesbian population? I just want ot be clear on this, but that does seem to be what you're saying. Most of them tried to be "good little girls" and date men, just as many gay men tried to to live "straight" lives while actually in the closet. These men were born gay, which they usually realized around the same time we all start to have sexual feelings; puberty, and then had to choose what to do about it. Awkward first sexual encounters are the norm, even among straight people, can you imagine how awkward first sexual excounters are for young people who are actually gay, but are trying to do what most of their friends expect of them, and get sexual with the gender they're NOT attracted to? Yikes! I'm certain that many of the lesbians you mention who "swore off men" were gay anyway, and just didn't realize it or were in denial about it. That's why, for their part, the relationships failed. Physical abuse is not limited to this situation of course, and any man who puts his hands on a woman is king of the losers anyway. As for trying to figure out where a person's sexuality fits in, whether out of shame, persecution or fear of it, family pressure, (which can be HUGE) or religious or other convictions telling them it's wrong, many gay men tried to date women, have sex with them, and even have families. I know one such man very well, his father was one of my grandfather's brothers. He's gay. He's always been gay. But he got married, had sex with his wife, had two daughters, and then ... when living this lie became too much, got divorced and came out of the closet. It was rough, yes, as all divorces are. But today he's on great terms with his ex, his daughters love him to death, he's close to both, (one is straight and one is gay, by the way) and everyone's happier. He 's a grandfather himself now. And no, his daughter isn't afraid her child will catch "gay" from grandpa or that he'll abuse the toddler sexually in any way. (I know you yourself Chevy57 didn't imply that at all, but some have). It's far FAR better to be who you are then to try and live a lie. Don't you agree? (Assuming "who you are" isn't a monster, and gay people aren't). Again, what gender and "type" you're attracted to is NOT your choice. What you do about it IS. -Greg
06-18-2008, 07:58 PM
Charger68

Pete and Mike..... Whew.... As Chris once said it's 2008 and Mike, Kitty has you dead to rights on the ignorance comment and beyond. Pete your logic ongays is much like Archie Bunker on..... well, EVERYTHING!!! Later, Dave
06-18-2008, 08:19 PM
GrampaMike46

Please forgive me Jamie. You are correct in separating morality from religion. Typically, religious people equate the two and most people are religious. Ididn't realize you weren't. My mistake for jumping to conclusions. Nevertheless, my point was that Hitler did indeed have moral values based on hisinterpretation of Christianity, Simply replace the word "Jews" with "Gays" and apparently 61% of Californians have a similar set of moralstandards, but without the real power to act on them. <blockquote> You cannot honestly believe that Hitler thought he was doing his Christian duty by killing millions of Jews.</blockquote>I do think that he believed he was doing his "Christian" duty but I'm not convinced he killed millions of Jews. I used to beconvinced but the more documents I see from that time period the less convinced I become. --------------- <blockquote> If you feel that Hitler was acting consistently with Christs teachings</blockquote>I quote myself from above: "his interpretation". <blockquote> Hitler was attempting to organize a national church under his supreme authority</blockquote>And exactly what church was that Mike? Was it not a bible based Christian church? Or was it Judaism? I forget. Refresh my memory. <blockquote> The big issue for you Gramps is this. What basis do you have for viewing the actions of Hitler as morally wrong?</blockquote>The only basis I have so far is that the winners write the history books and they tell us what he supposedly did and didn't do. Well no,that's not entirely true. He participated in and eventually became the government... and government is morally wrong. The sole purpose of government is thecontrol of one group of people by a more powerful group at the expense of the group being controlled. OK. OK. I realize that's not what you are reallyasking. That question doesn't really have anything to do with Hitler but where I get my morals. We've been through this before. I have a new answer foryou because there's no sense in rehashing old answers. My morals have been handed down from generation to generation beginning with my great216719 grandfather for 216,718 generations. His name was Gug and he was what is today calledAustralopithecus. The family stories say the old guy wouldn't hurt a flea unless he was hungry. Gramps
06-18-2008, 08:42 PM
Redline Whiteline

can't we just be men about this <img src="http://members.aol.com/mjaxe1/ebay/v" alt="image"> sorry too much opportunity here for a joke or 3
06-18-2008, 08:51 PM
CHEVY57

I know this because a gay woman told me. So now quote all the facts and studies you want, this comes from the horses mouth (so to speak)
06-18-2008, 08:53 PM
redlinejohnny6872

<blockquote> Redline Whiteline wrote: <hr> can't we just be men about this <img alt="image" src="http://members.aol.com/mjaxe1/ebay/v"> sorry too much opportunity here for a joke or 3 </blockquote> Y-M-C-A, it's fun to stay at the Y-M-C-AAAAAAAA!!!!!!! <img height="27" src="http://mmb.maverick.to/images/smilies/yahoo.gif" width="42" alt="image"><img height="27" src="http://mmb.maverick.to/images/smilies/yahoo.gif" width="42" alt="image"><img height="27" src="http://mmb.maverick.to/images/smilies/yahoo.gif" width="42" alt="image"><img height="27" src="http://mmb.maverick.to/images/smilies/yahoo.gif" width="42" alt="image"><img height="27" src="http://mmb.maverick.to/images/smilies/yahoo.gif" width="42" alt="image"><img height="27" src="http://mmb.maverick.to/images/smilies/yahoo.gif" width="42" alt="image"><img height="27" src="http://mmb.maverick.to/images/smilies/yahoo.gif" width="42" alt="image"><img height="27" src="http://mmb.maverick.to/images/smilies/yahoo.gif" width="42" alt="image"><img height="27" src="http://mmb.maverick.to/images/smilies/yahoo.gif" width="42" alt="image">
06-18-2008, 08:59 PM
chickluu

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v67/chickluu/o6.jpg" alt="image">
06-18-2008, 09:00 PM
jamwood1

<blockquote> GrampaMike46 wrote: <hr> Please forgive me Jamie. You are correct in separating morality from religion. Typically, religious people equate the two and most people are religious. I didn't realize you weren't. My mistake for jumping to conclusions. Nevertheless, my point was that Hitler did indeed have moral values based on his interpretation of Christianity, Simply replace the word "Jews" with "Gays" and apparently 61% of Californians have a similar set of moral standards, but without the real power to act on them. <blockquote> You cannot honestly believe that Hitler thought he was doing his Christian duty by killing millions of Jews. </blockquote>I do think that he believed he was doing his "Christian" duty but I'm not convinced he killed millions of Jews. I used to be convinced but the more documents I see from that time period the less convinced I become. --------------- </blockquote> I understand what you are saying now, and it makes sense to me. I missed a couple of key words from reading too fast the first time through--I do thatsometimes. On a related subject, I would love it if you could point me in the direction of or share some of the documents you referred to. The reason I ask is, abouttwenty years ago I got to go to the holocaust museum in Israel, and I left there sick to my stomach as it was very powerful. I have heard the rumors, butwould like to read any fact based documents on the subject. I would like any info on it that is available.
06-18-2008, 09:43 PM
TexKitty

<blockquote> <h3 class="quote-title">PeepingScott said:</h3> <hr> I guess you can now marry your sister or brother if you have the desire. Or how about your mother? Dog? Cat? Goat?</blockquote> So, Mr Jones, tell me exactly where in that quote do you not equate gay marriage (homosexuality) to marrying an animal (ie, bestiality)? I'll leave themother part out of it because that one is just too easy. Dan (camarocrazy), you're the one who said "it's not that I want to stop people from being gay, I want to stop the gay from being inthem." If that's not what you meant, then you should clarify exactly what you do mean. Are you trying to say that you believe homosexualitycan be fixed, as in through exorcism, where the "demon spirit" of homosexuality can be driven out by reading from a work of fiction? You still haven't provided any link to fully cite your aforementioned statement about the alleged lesbian couple beating a child. If you have time to throwout more BS, you have time to research something you already said. <blockquote> Jamie added this: You cannot honestly believe that Hitler thought he was doing his Christian duty by killing millions of Jews.</blockquote> No one can say with 100% certainty what he thought, but evidence does point to him suffering from any number of mental illnesses (ironic that he wanted to doaway with such "deficient" people as well, no?) and that he actually did believe he was doing the right thing. 6pak69 Mike, one thing you are not considering is that you choose your spiritual beliefs. I did not choose to be homosexual. I've beenthis way as far back as I can remember. A good friend of mine from years gone by could not have said it better. He said "I am glad that I was born blackand not homosexual. At least I didn't have to tell my mother." He understood where I'm coming from. He's incurred the wrath of others merelybecause of his race. Pete. I understand what you are saying and I know it's only from lack of knowledge. I honestly feel that you are trying to understand our differences andreach a level of understanding from there. I have told very few people this in the past because, frankly, it's none of anyone's damned business, but Ifeel this is a time where it can serve as demonstration of a point. As mentioned before, I did not choose to be a lesbian. My sexuality is only a minute part of who and what I am. I have been this way my entire life. I didexperiment once out of curiosity to see if maybe I was missing out on something. I'm leaving details out because for damn sure it's no one'sbusiness. I'll just say it didn't change a thing. That's not the core story for this part, but I felt the need to add it so that you and others maybe able to see things through my eyes. Again, I have been "this way" for as long as I can remember. Like many other women (not just lesbians but women in general), I have been the targetof a sex crime. In short, someone tried to rape me. I put him in the hospital for it and he ended up in prison, being found to be a serial rapist. Some of hisvictims were young girls. He was killed by other prisoners. <blockquote> <h3 class="quote-title">Chevy57 said:</h3> <hr> I know this because a gay woman told me. So now quote all the facts and studies you want, this comes from the horses mouth (so to speak)</blockquote> Pete, that is one woman. Certainly you can't believe that one case makes the same true for everyone.
06-18-2008, 09:53 PM
redlines68

LOL. Ohhhh nooooooo! Hide your families and redlines! The big bad gays are gonna come get em! I find this whole thread amusing in a 1950's communist hearings/witch hunt kind of way. Honestly with all the corrupt crap going on the world this is whatpeople are concerned about? Screw the economy, fuel crises, zombie epidemic, rampant crime, and thieves in positions of power. Hell naw that aint important!Imma get my self to fuedin over where two men hide that there salami and whether or not they can get hitched. Yep its good to see we have our priorities inorder. Gay's are apparently the "new zombie" of my generation. Ive never seen such paranoia over something since the dead climbed from their graves in1968. Youd swear they were some infectious flesh eating juggernaut hell bent on world domination from how people react to them. Eh....I still fear zombiesmore. They're coming to get you Barbara! And your designer clothes too!
06-18-2008, 10:28 PM
6pak69

Chris said "The fact that some of you have pretended that lines will now be drawn to allow for dogs to marry X, and for X to marry a child, is reallydisgusting-YOU NEED MAJOR HELP. The line is very C. L. E. A. R. in the sand, and NO dogs or kids will ever be wed-AH DUH. The line has been drawn and set, nowhatif's either. NAMBA as a reference, are you effin serious?" If you are referring to my comments you have missed the point completely. Heres Daves comment. "Yeah, who the hell cares what other people do?? I applaud their right to live how they choose, or are born to live, you clowns need to get a new planetwhere you all think alike. " This is the same level of childish thinking that pervades our culture today. Like an ostrich with its head in the sand. I can't see it so itdoesn't involve me. Well I disagree. What happens behind closed doors has a profound effect on a culture. It may be teaching our kids to care for theplanet, or that beating up their mom is acceptable behavior. The effect of activities happening behind closed doors is going to determine our future.The gaylifestyle is wrong just like a man cheating on his wife is wrong. Religion did not teach me that .So don't blame religion. I have always known it becausemy con-science tells me. Others on this thread have marvelled at the outrage of the pro-gay camp. I marvel too. Why do you scream "TOLERANCE" atpeople who disagree with you. Should you not be tolerant of our views when you demand that we be tolerant of yours? I just don't get it. --- mike

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