What would your decision be....

<blockquote> Rob got an answer to his original question, why continue?</blockquote> Et tu, Andrew? This, coming from one of the main contributors to continuance of this thread?<blockquote> We've now come full circle, took the long way around, and just wait! We've still got the Kitty waitin on deck</blockquote> Heh. I took a day off and this thread gained five pages. I don't think Andy slept the entire time I was away. Hell, just as I've been trying to catchup with the thread, it has expanded an additional two pages. I'd love to fast forward and jump back in with whatever the latest tidbit is, but I don'twant to miss any of this!Rob: It's not the Jelly Of The Month Club. This is the "boomerang fruitcake" of threads. It's the Energizer Bunny with herpes.<blockquote> FYI - spare me that left wing right wing crap. Its a waste of time. Im neither left or right so save it please for someone that gives a damn.</blockquote> YES! Someone else who refuses to be pigeonholed into a single definition! That's one thing that really causes others around me confusion. Just when someonethinks I'm a flaming liberal, I say something that throws a spanner in the works because suddenly I'm one of those conservative types. Wait a minute there, girlie! You can't put tattoos and non-original holes all over your body and want the death penalty! How dare I! I'm not straightup boxers or briefs. I do realise, however, that for there to be a right or left wing, there have to be people willing to hang out in aslightly more narrow (or in some cases, a static location) area. It can really be a pisser sometimes, but it takes all kinds. <blockquote> The gun fans in this country doesn't want the government to know how many rifles they own, whether it be 1, 5, or 200.</blockquote>It's like that here too but I'll let you in on a little secret: some of us have learned from history. If The State knows how many guns each of usowns, they know how many can be taken away from each of us. Where have I heard that notion before? You know,first, take away all their guns. Next, we brainwash people and kill millions of others because they run jewelry stores or are accountants, and all have curlydark hair and big noses. OH, that's right! The guy with the turd for a moustache who, had he gone by his own rules, should have sent himself to Sobibor, etal.You do see what pacifism did for "those other people," yes?<blockquote> You guys are the leaders of the free and civilized world</blockquote> How can we be civilised AND barbaric at the same time?Chris: Re: $19.95 on Pay-Per-View. Hell yes, sign me up too! That would be something I'd pay to see live, instead of waiting a week for it to come outon the internet "for free."<blockquote> Look from the other end, which can be remedied. A lotta these murderous gang bangers and what have you, come from families who, lets face it, don't exactly have the best pedigree</blockquote> Oh, Andy... you're still breathing in the same recycled carbon dioxide as you were three days ago. Two words, dude: FRESH. AIR. I can say with a fairamount of surety that you have never even visited The Hood. Am I correct so far? Take it from someone who has "been there." It's not what you seeon TV and in the movies. It's not always people shooting at each other. There are decent people in Da Hood. El Barrio. The Other Side ofthe Tracks.<blockquote> As I said, somewhere much much earlier in this thread - I've found that it's almost impossible to have a rational discussion with people who are pro-death penalty. They just become angry and then take everything personally and go on the attack. And once it has descended to that level, I'm done. I'm obviously a party crasher here, so I'll go away and y'all can enjoy your hatefest.</blockquote> Oh please. The only way you can have a discussion on the death penalty and it not be at the very least a heated debate, is to only discuss it with others whocompletely agree with you. Throwing your hands in the air and playing the martyr is no solution either. If you're that sensitive to disagreements that youthink this is a hatefest, I recommend you never discuss any other hot topic, such as abortion, religion, or even whether we truly exist or not, without wearingthe extra-heavy-duty (or whatever their biggest and baddest style is called) Depends. Andy and I have not agreed on much in at least a week or two. I don'thate him. I lose when I allow him to get on my last nerve, but hate him? Pfft. It takes a hell of a lot more than that.<blockquote> There's a lotta absent parents out there and a lotta crap young impressionable, maleable minds are exposed to.</blockquote> Yeah, baby! NOW we finally get to a point where we agree. In my opinion, that outlines exactly how I feel about society's ills. In my case, however,it's not just what's on TV. It's a combination of factors. There are variations, but the basicrecipe spells it out: You take a single-parent family, usually a single mother who has to work her ass off to put food on the table and a roof over heads. Thefather is absent because he is ignorant and stupid and feels he did his part by donating that additional chromosome. So, the kids end up having to grow up fastand on their own. They sit in front of the electronic babysitter (TV, computer, XBox, etc) because mom (or sometimes dad) is too tired to do much else whenthey get home.This is the part where I throw a curveball, because some reading along will think "hey, she's about to excuse peoples' behaviour because theyare poor." Heh. Thank you for playing, but you're wrong if that's the case. On the contrary, it's laziness. Poor mom is too worn out fromworking 12 hours to support the family. Kudos to her for working her ass off, but shame on her for not carrying out the "parenting" part. And HUGEshame on the dude who bailed. If you can't feed 'em, don't BREED 'em! That goes for both men AND women."So, kitty, how did you come to reach such radical ideals?" It's called education. It's called growing up with an absent father, whoworked two jobs most of my childhood and adolescence. It's not because he didn't love us. It's because he DID love us (my sister, me, and ourdrunk-ass mother). I know dysfunction. My formative years defined dysfunction. I was fortunate enoughto attend a private school in Taiwan, where the US government paid for my tuition so that I would not fall behind by first having to learn Chinese and thencatch up, but when we returned to the US, it was a huge leap backwards in time. Public school in the US sucked with noise then just as much as it does now. Ispent a few hours in the library. I was there, after all, serving detention. I discovered that I could get ahead of my classmates by studying and reading up onother topics that interested me.I also paid my own way through university. I was over 18 and I had already seen how hard it was on my father to raise us, much less selling off a hugecollection of antique clocks he had amassed while doing restorations on them for extra money, to pay for my sister's tuition at fashion merchandisingschool. I wanted to see my father live longer and hopefully some day retire.Okay, okay, I'll get to the point. My point is, people CAN grow up under the crappiest conditions and still do something with their lives. Sure, I hadone big advantage and that was coming from a background that knew what hard work was, and instilled that in children at a very young age. That's how wearrived at it being called Working Class. Still, many others decide that it's easier to sit on the curb andbitch about how sucky their lives are and try to take the easy route to the big money by selling drugs. Some people simply do not learn. I strongly believe inthe adage of teaching someone to fish. Unfortunately, not all of us can be expert anglers. Some need a kiddie rod and reel. Some need to just cut bait. Theones who aren't willing to do their part serve as lead weights and sometimes get snagged on the bottom. That's when it's time to cut the line andre-string.<blockquote> I just checked the results in the various primaries. Hillary is all but toast and will be bringing President Obama his paper and slippers serving as the lady of the house, the Vice President of the United States.</blockquote> Andy, if you're going to comment on the political process of your neighbours to the south, either learn a few things or try to comment on what you alreadyknow. That sounded more like something Bill O'Reilly would wishfully say in attempt to fool what few viewing sheep he still has from changing the channel.It's far from over. At this point, neither candidate can win or lose all prior to the convention. There are a number of states remaining that have yet tohave their primaries. As well, two states which previously had primaries, but the votes therein were not considered valid due to some stupidity of theDemocratic Party because said states moved their primaries to different dates. Now comes all the legal crap and we'll be lucky if that ends before theconvention. Remember how Florida played a big role in the election of George W Bush? Guess what? They're baaaaaaaack. Florida just happens to be one ofthose states that upset some within the Democratic Party.LOL I just read Steve's (sverrefehn) response to that statement. I was hoping someone else would field the sexism part. Hey, gang, this is one of thosetimes when Steve and I agree. There have been some occasions over the past month or three when we haven't, but I knew that there would again be times wedid agree. And not once during that other time did I lose my adoration for the guy. Just like in the past with Pete and a few others.<blockquote> I say shut them all down, seize the assets, set up 1 giant Community Credit Union, and spend the reduced profits on social things like the Old Age Homes in Ontario and elsewhere</blockquote> Oh wow. Karl Marx just got a wooder in his grave.Chris, I'll have to give you my rant about the Austin music scene and Lake Travis (I could make those into completely separate rants, really) some time.It ain't pretty.<blockquote> It is a crime to smoke crack. This is a victimless crime</blockquote> Just when I thought there was hope for you, you repeat that one too many times. Okay, grab a spiral bound and a pen. There will be a test.Crack. Common term for crack (or rock) cocaine. Formerly free base cocaine. Cocaine comes from the coca plant. Instead of growing life-sustaining crops,people all over South America grow coca. Supply and demand here at it's most raw definition. They grow coca because if they don't supply the drugcartel, they get the regional version of the death penalty and are replaced by someone willing to do the job. That is just the very beginning of the chain of"ownership" of the drug and already there are victims.I'm not done yet. I could write an entire thread worth of describing intermediate victims, but I'll skip straight to that "victimlesscrime" referred to of the person smoking crack. How is that victimless? It's a known fact that smoking crack even once can cause addiction to the substance. How is that victimless? Is that person not a victim? Are they any less avictim of their own addiction than an alcoholic or heroin (not heroine) addict? What if the person smoking that rock is a woman who is pregnant? Nah, novictims there. She'll go right back to her job on Wall Street in the morning and that zygote attached to the wall of her uterus will fluorish without asingle issue in life.<blockquote> Trust me, if Dave get's his wish and his showpony wins the election, SHE will take our guns.</blockquote> Nah. Gun ownership is still safe. Remember, the man who could very well become our first "First Gentleman" understands a little about history. Partof that history is how this country was founded. As mentioned previously (probably about 30 paragraphs earlier), a huge lesson we should learn from history iswhat can happen when guns are taken away from the populace. Technology also has advanced to the point where "they" would have to take away allprivate ownership of industrial tools. Otherwise, people could make their own firearms. Let's take away all those bows and arrows too. You see where thisis going, doncha? Yup. Take away our rocks and our household chemicals, because some people know how to turn those into explosives and incendiary devices.Don't forget that bagful of Kingsford briquets, my reel of small tubing, and my book of matches, Hillary. I know how to mess up an automobile (or house)pretty bad with those three items. Never mind what I can do with what's underneath my bathroom sink.Tinfoil (actually aluminum foil but I still call it tinfoil too) in the microwave. Hmmm. We have an old microwave that I was going to turn into a cutelittle sleeping/napping quarters for my bro's cat but I may now have to sacrifice it for the betterment of this thread. I know what aluminum foil will doin the microwave. Pfft. Boring. I'm wondering what effect the oven would have on magnesium. You can make some somewhat artistic-looking pieces out of thoseAOL and "coaster" CDs and DVDs if you use a low power setting in a microwave and only put it in for a second or two. Just don't tell Hillary Ihave the microwave, okay? I may not have it any longer by next week anyway. I have the urge to see what happens to a hollow point shell with a small magnesiumrock placed in the indentation and put in the microwave.<blockquote> im joining the military not because of my want to go to Iraq but because i believe there will one day be a need for soldiers to fight for a more worthy cause</blockquote> Thank you, Justin. From the heart, I thank you for your dedication to this country - to your people. I hope that the pacifists among us will understand thatthis is just as much for their benefit as mine.<blockquote> Once more: I am not, repeat NOT advocating being 'warm and fuzzy' with these criminals. I am advocating using them for the betterment of society. That doesn't necessarily translate to warm and fuzzy...</blockquote> That makes some sense, but remember the "Scared Straight" program from decades ago? Do you remember how many of those kids went on to be anotherstatistic? In short, the only ones scared straight by the program were the ones who probably would have gone the straight path on their own anyway. In otherwords, it changed nothing. No lessons were learned, other than it made for a good program on HBO to hear cussin' on TV. To us, that was like seeing anR-rated movie (back when the R meant something much more strict) without leaving the comfort of our own home.<blockquote> The federal right wing Christian element government Bleeding heart liberal crap</blockquote> I see where Steve's coming from, Andy. You bash the right, you bash the left, you contradict yourself and you've gone on so many tangents sometimesthat I feel as though we've all just come out of the other side of a black hole. And just what the hell does a rotten banana have to do with home security?You said you would address that, but never did. FOCUS, boy, FOCUS!<blockquote> 30 to 1 odds if in the next week the media airs a story about Mr. Cutts dropping the soap in prison</blockquote> I want some of that action, Justin! The betting, not the soap part.Jamie, the "beating horse" icon is one that I really don't like, but I love what you did with it. I think it looks too much like someonebeating a sleeping dog, not a dead horse. Hey, it's the Michael Vick icon!<blockquote> Andy... we're ALL the lowest common denominator.</blockquote> I had to save that one for last. Greg, I know that things may not be going well for you right now, but please, the emo kid thing is really wearing. Iknow that you agree that humans are higher up the food chain than that. If we actually were the lowest commondenominator, we would rapidly reach extinction.I have a spatula and I'm not afraid to use it. <img id="fullSizedImage" alt="cat-spatula.gif picture by kat-illac" src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a22/kat-illac/meow/cat-spatula.gif?t=1204788465">

Shucks Kitty, you just made me blush.

The only problem with the DP it's not enforced, with all the syco's that are locked up for life and on death row it should be a daily activity, but noway lets find a way to stop it seconds before the pull the cord, push the button, flip the switch....zzzzzzzzzzap<img height="20" src="http://www.ezboard.com/image/posticons/pi_dead.gif" width="20" alt="image">

I'll say one or two more things, then I'm outta here too. To Kitty only. Kitty, you usually are the 'comprehensive' voice of sober 2ndthought. Needed around here! Although my knowledge of the American political system is fairly basic, I do understand how the primaries and conventions and allthat work. My projection for who might become President is wishfull thinking somewhat based in recent past events. Would you be willing to give me 50 to 1 oddsthat a Republican will get in,.....doubt it. 2 to 1,......doubt it! 7 to 5 odds that McCain gets in,..........doubt it. No Republican gets in this time!Notwithstanding Ralphy's take of the vote, the Democrats are in. That being said, it's either Clinton or Obama. Even Florida won't be able to skewthe vote this time. It's overwhelming sentiment that Reps go! They're outta here! My comments about the slippers were no more sexist than the religeonfrom which the notion of a 'Traditional' marriage comes from and a failed attempt on my part to lampoon it. As you know, in a so called'Traditional' marriage, the Male is the head of the household to whom the wife is subservient, so the analogy is that a male should be the Prezisn't outta line. I couldn't really care which gender becomes Prez, just as long as no republicans get in. I'd really prefer to see Ralph take itand not ruin it like he did before, although why he did that was for the better really. People aren't gonna let that happen again, it will have to be alittle more defined this time. Now, about the victimless crime thing. I stand corrected, you are totally right, there are victims and the ones you mention.The unborn child or the child of absent parents. You right, me wrong! I was considering a marijuana plant, not heroine or cocaine, or meth, or.......Chrismentioned a plant, meth don't come from plants. Chris' impulse was right, but after a little thought, maybe not totally, the key word being totally. Ialso learned a valuable lesson this time,..............................stay outta these kinds of threads. I will from now on! Rob, I threw in my 2 bits forwhat that's worth. My opinion's on some acts of barbarism carried out by the state will not change. And please, get a handle on the guns that wind upacross the border on our streets. A lotta gun crimes wouldn't occur if wayward guns wouldn't wind up in the hands of an impressionable, impulsive,opportunist, young. They work like charm works, you suddenly feel this empowerment come over you. Kids who may never had used a gun, or weapon, suddenly havethis power thing come over them. And if they are the victims of their own parents poor breeding practices, the garbage that the culture can be, and a feelingthat society's down on them, and poverty and powerlessness they experience as children, they cannot be blamed. I took heat from Karen a few months ago, andsubsequently really don't speak anymore, over a comment about my observation that a lotta folks don't really care about their offspring, well, thetypes spoken of here in this thread are the types I was talkin' about. For me, I did the right thing. When I was young and all my friends were on thiscompetative child rearing bandwagon, I chose not to because 25 years ago I knew which way things were going and I just didn't see this as a fit place toput a child. I'm outta here........................................................

Pro-Lifers (non baby form)-in the last week, just in one LA tiny harbor city, a series of shootings have occured. Just in a 7 day span only. 8 folks women andchildren shot or killed at a bus stop-no word on if any bangers were actually hit. A high school football star, shot in his front yard, great kid, good grades,non-banger-dead. Yesterday, a family of 4 going to buy a new car, opened fire upon, their 6 year old son is on life support-word is, the toddler was anon-banger. All these folks had something in common, they were black, and were fired upon by Latino's. Where did the race war begin, P R I S O N. So, keepstacking the animals, so WE can continue to be unsafe waiting for the bus, standing in our front yards, of heaven help you, if you need to buy a car. Housingthese animals with no real threats is moronic anymore. Prison are so full, and more being built, and your prison system effects plenty of outside communitiesas well. LA doesn't have a race war goin on, Pelican Bay, Chino, Susanville, have RACE wars goin on. Until there is a movement to get tough on crime, and Idon't mean longer terms, there is NOTHING that is going to get better, nothing. There is no education to prevent crimes. We can give kids condoms, but wecan't have real visual impacts of what crime does to the victim and the victims, the devastation it leaves, the families torn apart. We can't showsomeone getting the needle to the kids? Please. We live in a world of idiots, sheep being lead to slaughter, dumbasses by the masses (favorite ICP songline). Idon't care one single second about the rights of the convicted murderer, as they didn't honor the rights of their victims-they cashed in their chips oflife. It's not two wrongs don't make a right either, because that saying has nothing to do with murder. The trickle down effect, has barely even beenmentioned on our debate, and that is sad.

J-If I was goin to shut it down, that shoulda happened long ago. It's a trainwreck as is, but who doesn't love a good crash during a NASCAR race?Bumper to bumper is fun, and once in awhile, somebody get's hung out. (I haven't watched a single NASCAR event this year, yet it sounds like I am rightthere, but man, good slang terms are hard to come by after page 15).

One more thing, talk about insults being thrown out by me. I noticed that that crap didn't start with me, or Greg, but we were both compared to members ofNAMBLA. I've got one response to that. F%$K off!

I say one bullet in his head, and I'll even volunteer.

<img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/sick.gif" alt="image">

Andy, your glasshouse, has many cracks. That's what happens when you juggle bricks....