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Not anytime soon Bowtie Lovers...<br><br>"General Motors is planning to cut thousands of white-collar jobs and is considering whether it should sell or stop production of more of its brands,..."<img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/frown.gif" alt="image"><br><br>Colin
With everyone clamoring for hybrids and econo-boxes, I'm actually looking for more of this to happen. I'm not so sure the Challenger will do well afterthe initial surge. A lot of folks paid already or reserved one. There will aways be a segment of the market that will want these awesome muscle machines, butperhaps as time goes on, and fuel costs more, that segment may become smaller. I'm hanging on to my v8 Taurus!<img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/pimp.gif" alt="image">
I love the Camaro but they may want to cut there loss and just stay with the HB's maybe an HB camaro??.........lol.....umm no.....
<img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/wink.gif" alt="image"><br><br><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/adamsredlines/challengerfront.jpg" alt="image">
The gas is controlling it all. If they would drill here at home the problem would be solved and the muscle cars could come back. If they drill here I bet theprices would stay right where their at. <img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/eyes.gif" alt="image"><br>I want one but it would be out of my price range anyway.<br>I'll wait for a used one. <img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/ohwell.gif" alt="image"><br>Tim
Personally, I think it's just as well. The Big Three cannot survive forever selling trucks and boutique (or 'retro' if you prefer) cars. They needto get down to the business of building transportation that is the match of Honda and Toyota, or BMW and Mercedes. They can do it, but not if they'rewasting their time with special-interest cars like the Camaro and Challenger.<br><br>By the way, I saw a Challenger on the road this morning - man, that is one BIG ASS car... not at all the svelte, athletic looking original. Looks more like atank with leering eyes and some nice surface treatment to me.<br><br>So they're cars from a long-gone era, and it'll never be the same... I say let 'em die in peace and we'll keep on restoring the originals...<br><br>Greg
<strong>There were 2 new Challengers at yesterdays Super Car Sunday........<br><br>The new Camaro is Butt Ugly anyways, i could have designed a better model,<br>and it's best that GM holds off for now, if not entirely........</strong>
They got the front end of the new camaro right, but from the rear of the doors back they screwed up bad.
I hate all these new "retro" cars. Ive seen a few new challengers and they looked like poop. Big POOP! And the new mustangs....eh. Looks like aglazed over 67. About the only thing good about the new Mustangs is Ford finally gave the stang its own platform when they moved to the s197 design so the carmoved away from its much antiquated fairmont chasis. Thank god for that, but the designs for these "retro" cars is far from what id call creative. Imvery doubtful the 5th gen Camaro will see the light of showroom floors. Funny because its about the only design that looks somewhat creative.<br><br>Dont even get me started on the new Shelby's. Lumbering and overpriced. Eh id just assume buy one of the 03-04 cobras for a fraction of the price, put agriggs racing suspension kit on it for about 10 grand and leave the status symbol BS to some other person that just cares about a name.<br><br>Honestly the muscle car era is just plain gone. Its time to move forward. I dont think Detroit got the memo. Theres plenty of real mucle cars out here waitingto have some money poured into them that can be 10 fold what these new hunks of crap are. This whole retro craze baffles me. Just log it in the anals ofautomotive fads next to ricers, vanners, and SUV's. Im awaiting the next ridiculous fad on four wheels. How about a compact car built on a 1/2 ton pickupframe? You could call it the CUV (compact utility vehicle). Eww. I think i just threw up in my mouth.<img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/sick.gif" alt="image"><br>
Alot of people are upset because the latest generation of American muscle cars aren't the same as the old ones. Well, that is great! As much as I love oldschool muscle cars, I am glad the car company's have made many advancements. Maybe the styling isn't real creative, but it is selling, which is whatthey are in business for. Besides that, the new cars are faster, handle way better, give off less emmisions, lighter in some cases, wayyy more dependable, aremuch more refined, and have more creature comforts. The new Challenger has the same hp rating as the highest option engine back in the day at a fraction of thecost. I would love to have an original 426 Hemi Challenger, but it is a little too pricey for me to say the least, and they are very tempermental, so you spendmore time tuning than enjoying. I can take a little lacking in styling department in exchange for being able to bump the key and enjoy the many otheradvancements.
"The gas is controlling it all. If they would drill here at home the problem would be solved and the muscle cars could come back. If they drill here I betthe prices would stay right where their at."<br><br>Tim, that will never happen, at least not in our lifetime. The American dollar is what is driving the price of oil. It's simply not worth much anymore, andthat's why we're paying more for each barrel. It's also the only thing, keeping the US from going into a massive, and I mean massive depression.The last one, will be a joke compared to the new one. I don't think, we're seen anything yet......
<font color="#003300">That new Camaro is butt-ugly. I think that they missed it completely . I saw the new Challenger this past weekend and it's a nicecar but it looks chunky... Then again, it is based on the new Charger which is a big car.<br><br>GM needs to go back and build basic small cars.... If any GM execs are reading this..... Go buy a CIVIC and slap a bow tie on the grill and some roundtaillight on the rear and call it CHEVY VEGA or Chevy II or Nova.... Go buy a Camry and put a Buick nose on it and some Regal-like taillights and callit the new Buick Regal... Believe me, Forget about the Buick Enclave or Chevy Traverse....30,ooo for a 5 thousand pound boat to go to the mall. Thosedays are gone.</font>
Or because they figure due to the economy, not everyone has 60 grand to fork over on a Camaro. It does look ok, but would rather have that new challenger, or a1971 Pontiac gto.<img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/tongue.gif" alt="image"><br>Eric
Some people say the Camaro's ugly some say that Toyotas are, to each his own. The Camaro will have different engine options so you could get a 6 banger ifyou wanted. But lets be serious who the hell would by a sports car without the biggest motor available. Hotrodders could care less about MPG's. Just go toany cruise night and see if one person cares about gas. <img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/wink.gif" alt="image">
<blockquote> <strong class="quote-title">chrish284 wrote:</strong> <hr> "The gas is controlling it all. If they would drill here at home the problem would be solved and the muscle cars could come back. If they drill here I bet the prices would stay right where their at." <br><br> Tim, that will never happen, at least not in our lifetime. The American dollar is what is driving the price of oil. It's simply not worth much anymore, and that's why we're paying more for each barrel. It's also the only thing, keeping the US from going into a massive, and I mean massive depression. The last one, will be a joke compared to the new one. I don't think, we're seen anything yet...... <br><br> Chris I've had the same feeling for a while now that unless gas prices go down drastically U.S. will go into deep depression and then because we here in Canada rely so much on the U.S. will soon follow and then everything's out of whack because U.S. can't buy anything from other countries and so on and so forth. I hope to god that this doesn't happen, but unless something drastically changes soon that's where the world is headed, but maybe not China. Also I'm not trying to be pessimistic or all doomsday with you guys. I'm just saying what I feel will happen in all honesty. <br></blockquote><p> </p>
If the big 3 really wanted to blow me away theyd make a tube chassis 2 seater coupe with a full cage, aluminum block V8, no heavy electronic crap, stupide-gadgets, or idiot proof driver aids and throw in the suspension to back it up. Im all for more efficient vehicles but if these manufactures insist onbuilding something thats going to pollute and burn through fuel like Lindsey Lohan does booze after falling off the wagon then they should at least buildsomething with some balls. If im going to drive something like this it might as well be as fast and performance oriented as possible otherwise its just a POSwith an identity crises. These bumbling sissy crap luxo barges make me want to puke.<br><br>The 2000 cobra R was the perfect example of what the modern muscle car should have been. No extras. No A/C. No rear seats. No radio. Docile and very capable ona road course. No BS! Sadly the numb skull execs at Ford saw it fit to kill their SVT division in favor of going "upscale" with their performanceline as they called it. Pffffffft! Yeah nice. Funny thing is the price of the new Shelby is about the only thing thats gone upscale because the car sure is alumbering slow POS. Thank you numb skull execs at Ford, GM, and Dodge for taking the last cool thing Americans were proud of that they could afford to own andmaking it another watered down fad only accessible to the few.<br><br>RIP...<br>-03-04 SVT Cobra AKA "The Terminator"<br>-SVT Lightning<br>-Cobra R<br>
Oh, I agree, I still tear up over the demise of Ford's SVT division and GM's SLP cars. My current dream is an '03-'04 Cobra with the terminatordrive train in Atlantic blue or mystichrome!<br><br>If all I did was drive around in my car and street light drag race, I would love a stripped down, no frills muscle car. Unfortunately, real life has me doingmore transportation from point A to B type driving, and when my wife and son and I are all in the car, or I am going home after a long day at work, I am glad Ican turn on the A/C, turn up the radio, set the cruise, and enjoy a smooth ride....but it still has enough power to have fun when time permits!<br><br>The big 3 in these times have no choice but to make what sells, and a stripped down perfomance car is too small of a market to be profitable.
2009 Camaro Body in White platform...$12,000<br><br>High output LS7 engine...+$17,000<br>T-56 transmission.... No charge<br>12 bolt rear with 5 link suspsension....+$4000<br>Radio delete ... No Charge<br>console delete ... No charge<br>rear seat delete...No Charge<br>Appearance package delete/emblem delete ... -No charge<br>insulation delete... No charge<br>A/C delete... No charge<br>tubular subframe reinforcements...+$800<br>6 point roll bar...+$800<br>Full racing harnessnes...+$200<br>Detachable steering wheel....+$350<br>Halon fire suppression system....+$1200<br>Power steering delete....No charge<br>ABS delete... No charge<br>Traction control delete....No charge<br>6 piston 4 wheel vented disk brakes... +$2000<br>B&M short throw shifter...+$200<br>HD mechanical clutch with lightened flywheel...+$800<br>Black powdercoated aluminum 3 piece American Racing style wheels with BFG heat cycled summer radials...$3000<br>Aluminum rear spoiler aka "Gurney Flap"...$300<br>15 gallon composite fuel cell....$400<br><br>You get 3 colors to pick from...<br>-"Plane Jane White"<br>-"Donahue Blue"<br>-"Yunick Special": Black body with metallic gold roof .....+$1500<br><br>Until they offer something like this the "retro" cars will earn nothing from me but a big fat YAWN!<br><br><br><br><br><br>
12 bolt rear with 5 link suspsension....+$4000<br>tubular subframe reinforcements...+$800<br>6 point roll bar...+$800<br>Full racing harnessnes...+$200<br>Detachable steering wheel....+$350<br>Halon fire suppression system....+$1200<br>6 piston 4 wheel vented disk brakes... +$2000<br>B&M short throw shifter...+$200<br>HD mechanical clutch with lightened flywheel...+$800<br>Black powdercoated aluminum 3 piece American Racing style wheels with BFG heat cycled summer radials...$3000<br>Aluminum rear spoiler aka "Gurney Flap"...$300<br>15 gallon composite fuel cell....$400<br><br>These kinds of things is what the aftermarket is for. I think you expect way too much from the big 3 automakers. They are in the business of making passengercars for the general public, not drag cars for a niche market. It is a nice wish list, but I think it is up to your local speed shop or race shop to fit thebill, not the car dealership.
Wasnt the original idea of a muscle car about taking a 2 door coupe and packing all the performance into it that current technology of the era permitted andleaving everything else out? I must have missed something.<br><br>The "modern muscle car" aka "ugly retro thing" is like everything else today. It has no idea what it is. Half (im being generous when i sayhalf) performance car. Half luxo barge/mid life crises mobile. The big thing that made a muscle car was that it was a "niche" vehicle. It wasnt madefor everyone. It had only one market of buyer that wanted the fastest factory hot rod they could get. Today its become this thing that tries to please everyoneand in that process its lost its appeal to the purists. Its the modern Thunderbird. It started as a fun little car without lots of options and slowly changedto accommodate more and more that "needed" extra junk and became something entirely different leaving its original appeal in the dust.<br><br>Everything these days has to appeal to the masses. Its a very all or nothing world. Go to movies. Chances are the movie you see was screened to hundreds ofpeople and then cut down by studio execs to only leave in what had "mass appeal". The truth is the majority of the screening audience may have noteven like that genre of film to begin with, but because they didnt respond to certain elements the execs bring out the guillotine and lop off that scene. Thenby the time it hits theaters those loyal to the genre find it disappointing because it was molded into something to appeal to a more sweeping general audience.Its the same tale with the modern muscle car. They gave into the masses and forgot those that liked it for what it was and helped make it the success it was.Without the "niche" market of gear head purists the muscle car would have never been. But at least the masses love it. After all mass appeal isbetter.<img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/sick.gif" alt="image"><br><br>The big 3 could at least offer lots of delete options for the rest of us that dont want to pay for crap we'd remove anyway. I dont think thats asking toomuch? I know it doesnt cost anything to build a car without this stuff.<br>
Well, I guess you can buy one and take all of those awful creature comforts out! <img src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif"><br><br>More muscle cars came with ammenities than not: GTO Judge, Shelby GT500, Olds 442, and so on, so this is not a modern phenomenon.<br><br>Personally, if I am ever fortunate enough to own a 1970 LS6 Chevelle, which came as loaded as a car could in it's time, I am not removing anything!
All the cars you listed were later versions of what were once more basic cars. By the late 60's the muscle car was already in its transition to mass appealand packing on pounds of heavy un needed options. Youre overlooking cars that came before that. Max Wedge Polaras, Super Duty Catalinas, etc. These cars wereabout the most basic extreme factory hot rods of the day. And they were highly successful vehicles and responsible for starting it all. Even the beloved 67-68GT500's were a heavy lumbering vehicle that was once a lighter more spartan car. What about the earlier GT 350? Or the ultimate...the GT 350R? Those weresome basic great performing factory cars that became more heavy luxury oriented vehicles by the 67 model year. After 68 the Shelby's were downright landyachts. And that awesome LS6 you own with amenities? (Nice car BTW always liked the LS6's). Even it was born from a more basic ancestor with somewhatextreme factory options for its time the z16 Chevelle. So i'd have to disagree with you that extras were always there.<br><br>The heavy options were a later result of trying to gain mass appeal. Yuck I hate that phrase. The mass appeal is what makes the sales so its understandable whythey became more civilized vehicles by the late 60's. They are in the business of making money so i do understand the desire to gain a broader market. Butthey still offered stripped down versions with more HD components and high output engines like COPO's to accommodate those that just wanted performance.Pretty much any car of the era could be as stripped down as you wanted it.<br><br>So back to my basic gripe. Its no big endevour to build these things without the extra crap. It doesnt cost anything to leave out a stereo, A/C, rear seat,etc. But it does cost a buyer money for options they dont want or need. Why pay $30,000 for a new Mustang GT with stuff like CD/MP3, power options, and so onif i dont want them? Why cant they give the buyer the option weather he or she wants the extras that make it a $30,000+ car? There are people out hereaccustomed to not having creature comforts that would love to own a new car thats fast and affordable with a warranty and not having to void that warranty inorder to have the car how they want it. Something tells me theres a bigger market out here for buyers of a bare bones GT for $24,000 than a $50,000 statussymbol. But thats just my opinion. Worst case theyd gain another niche that would cost them essentially nothing. They wouldnt have to build them unless someoneordered one. So theres no risk of having to build and sell x amount of them to make a profit. It would simply be an option should somebody want it. Soundspretty simplistic. Hell they could very well steal some business from Mitsubishi and Subaru in the process. The STI and Evo have gone up in price considerablyand gotten alot more luxury oriented. Detroit is always griping about loss of sales to the Jap's blah blah blah. We'll heres one starting place to hitthem. Take on their flagship performance cars and out do them. Then rethink your other vehicles in your fleet. Its not rocket science. I hate to say it but ina way its giving a model even more mass appeal. That is what they want right?<br><br>As for my extreme description of a ultimate 2009 Camaro. We'll its not cheap but damn if i had the money to buy that or a loaded up 2009 SS for the sameamount i would most definitely take the first pick. But thats personal preference and i agree that its asking a bit much. Delete options however are not.<br>
<blockquote> <strong class="quote-title">beauzoe wrote:</strong> <hr> Not anytime soon Bowtie Lovers... <br><br> "General Motors is planning to cut thousands of white-collar jobs and is considering whether it should sell or stop production of more of its brands, ..."<img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/frown.gif" alt="image"><br><br> Colin</blockquote><p>From what I've read, they were talking about Buick, Saab and Hummer.<br></p><p>No mention of the new Camaro.<br></p>
Its all talk right now Bert. When it first came out they said all brands but Cadillac and Chevy. Then I heard the brands you mentioned. Last story was sellingoff Hummer. Only time will tell.