HR 45 "Watch Out!"

This is a "Cut and Paste" but it doesn't take away from the severity of this whole thing.<br><br>Pleased be advised and pass this along: House Bill HR 45, Blair Holt Licensing and Record Act of 2009 Will, in my opinion, be the first of 2 or 3 steps towardconfiscation of privately owned firearms.<br><br>You can follow the sequence as it already happened in Canada and the UK . First the government needs to register the guns so they will know where to find them.<br><br>Here they come, ready or not. Feel the water getting warmer?<br><br>Are you ready for the House Bill titled 'HR 45, Blair Holt Licensing and Record Act of 2009'. It will make it illegal to own a firearm unless it isregistered with the database in Washington D.C. As a gun owner you will have to be finger printed, you will be required to provide your DL#, SS#, you mustmaintain a valid address at all times, submit to mental and physical health records being put on file, you will also be required to file any address changesand any ownership changes even if a private sale. Each update will cost $25 and if you fail to comply you will lose your right to own firearms. This bill andits language mirror almost completely one defeated last year in the House of Representatives by soon to be Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. Will we the citizenrybe as lucky this time?<br><br>Pass this on to everyone who believes in strict Constitutionalism and remember that laws only apply to those who obey them. Criminals by definition and naturedo not abide by laws. New laws and restrictions only apply to the law abiding citizen and are not written with the criminal in mind. With guns, it is not abouthaving laws on the books to prosecute individuals, it is about taking guns away from the people so that no one has them in the first place. One last item tonote, when assuming power and creating a facist state, Hitler was a proponent of strong gun laws because a disarmed populace was much easier to control than anarmed one. The kings of old also outlawed weapons of any kind in any region that they conquered to quell the ability of the citizens to uprise against them.<br><br>The Founding Fathers of this nation understood all of the above and because of this they included the second amendment in the constitution. In fact, they knewthat at some point in every society's life span that the need for the population to arise came about. To this end they made the right to keep and bear armsagainst a tyrannical state an absolute right that could not be revoked. They did this because the first thing tyrants and despots do is to remove apopulation's right to defend themselves When this is done, the tyrants have no problem with the destruction of society as we know it.<br><br>Send this on to all true patriots! Protect your Second Amendment!<br><br><br>The following is a summary of the bill as provided by the Congressional Research Service. If you read the whole bill, you'll find it will effectivelypreclude the ownership of ANY firearms by law-abiding people unless licensed by the Attorney General. How long do you think THAT would take?? CongressionalResearch Service Summary The following summary was written by the Congressional Research Service, a well-respected nonpartisan arm of the Library of Congress.GovTrack did not write and has no control over these summaries.<br>1/6/2009--Introduced. Blair Holt's Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 - Amends the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act to prohibit a personfrom possessing a firearm unless that person has been issued a firearm license under this Act or a state system certified under this Act and such license hasnot been invalidated or revoked. Prescribes license application, issuance, and renewal requirements. Prohibits transferring or receiving a qualifying firearmunless the recipient presents a valid firearms license, the license is verified, and the dealer records a tracking authorization number. Prescribes firearmstransfer reporting and record keeping requirements. Directs the Attorney General to establish and maintain a federal record of sale system. Prohibits: (1)transferring a firearm to any person other than a licensee, unless the transfer is processed through a licensed dealer in accordance with national instantcriminal background check system requirements, with exceptions; (2) a licensed manufacturer or dealer from failing to comply with reporting and record keepingrequirements of this Act; (3) failing to report the loss or theft of the firearm to the Attorney General within 72 hours; (4) failing to report to the AttorneyGeneral an address change within 60 days; or (5) keeping a loaded firearm, or an unloaded firearm and ammunition for the firearm, knowingly or recklesslydisregarding the risk that a child is capable of gaining access, if a child uses the firearm and causes death or serious bodily injury. Prescribes criminalpenalties for violations of firearms provisions covered by this Act. Directs the Attorney General to: (1) establish and maintain a firearm injury informationclearinghouse; (2) conduct continuing studies and investigations of firearm-related deaths and injuries; and (3) collect and maintain current production andsales figures of each licensed manufacturer. Authorizes the Attorney General to certify state firearm licensing or record of sale systems.<br><br><a title="blocked::"></a><a target="_blank" href="http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.45.IH">http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.45.IH</a>href="http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.45.IH" target=_blank rel=nofollow&gt;<a target="_blank" href="http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.45.IH">http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.45.IH</a><br>

When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.........................

I'm quite certain I'll be the only one here to say it, but I'm all for HR 45. The 2nd Ammendment is widely misinterpreted, and was intended togrant the right of the People <em>as a Militia</em> to bear arms and does <em>not</em> address private ownership.

Will HR 45 affect my cache of weapons-grade plutonium? I mean, you never know...

sounds like most of the crap on the books already.

I am with you Greg....I once had a wild collection of about 25 revolvers/pistols and 15 to 20 long guns...I also had a stockpile of about 30,000 rounds of thevarious ammunition needed to shoot all of them. Every week-end I'd go to the range and shoot a bunch of papert targets. When I moved to Canada I had toshed my weoponry, and become one of the masses without the personal protection, I was so comfortable owning in the past. As it stands right now, 10 yearslater, I am still alive and have yet to really have a reason to own one again other than the fact that I would want to. In my opinion, right now, if theystopped manufacturing them for the public, it wouldn't bother me in the least. Paranoia is not a good reason to own a gun. And it is not ones right to owna gun as much as it is a priviledge and that can be taken away.....the 2nd ammendment is highly misinterpreted. Forgive the spelling...lol

"The 2nd Ammendment is widely misinterpreted, and was intended to grant the right of the People <em>as a Militia</em> to bear arms and does <em>not</em>address private ownership."<br> Prove it!<br><img height="20" src="http://www.ezboard.com/image/posticons/pi_hippie.gif" width="20" alt="image">Later, Steve<p><br></p>

private citizens make up a militia. What....if, by chance a militia was needed, people would have to go knock on the local National Guard armory to be armed?Not likely to happen. They take all privately owned guns away....every gang banger gonna give 'em up too? I bet there would be a serious spike in homeinvasions and robberies......crooks and gangs are most definitely law abiding citizens. <img src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eyes.gif">

I'm keeping my guns NO MATTER WHAT. If ever questioned, I'll say they were stolen. I'm tempted to pick up another handgun, but don't want apaper trail...<br>

There is nothing to be "proven" about the 2nd ammendment. It was written at a time and under circumstances so utterly different than those which welive in now, and in antiquated English so open to misinterpretation, as to render it almost meaningless. However, it is clear that the people who wrote itweren't thinking about paranoid citizens arming themselves with handguns to protect themselves from each other. They were thinking of invasion by foreigncountries, namely England. Think your handgun will do you any good when some country attacks us with nuclear warheads?<br><br>While the argument that "regulating firearms means that only criminals will have them" bears some merit, it only tells me that there need to be evenmore restrictive gun control laws in place.<br><br>Looks like this is turning into a political debate...

always does! LOL!

<strong><font size="4">They can have my guns........<br><br>When they pry them from my cold, dead hands..........<br><br>I can already see where this thread's going on this forum, straight into oblivion.........</font></strong>

<img src="http://sshare1.familylobby.com/icons/icon_popcorn.gif" alt="image"><img src="http://mmb.maverick.to/images/smilies/stirthepot.gif" alt="image"><br>

<blockquote> <strong class="quote-title">chickluu wrote:</strong> <hr><img alt="image" src="http://sshare1.familylobby.com/icons/icon_popcorn.gif"><img alt="image" src="http://mmb.maverick.to/images/smilies/stirthepot.gif"><br></blockquote><br><br><img height="18" src="http://forums.gottadeal.com/images/smilies/sidesplit.gif" width="30" alt="image"><img height="41" src="http://redlinesonlinemessageboard.yuku.com/domain/bypass/images/lol.gif" width="36" alt="image"><img height="18" src="http://forums.gottadeal.com/images/smilies/sidesplit.gif" width="30" alt="image">

Just out of curiosity, and admitting in advance that I do not have the same fear of our government that a few of our board members have, but... <br><br>What if it is our very own government from whom at some point in time we need to defend ourselves? Will they give us our guns back to do so?<br><br>Just asking...<br><br>Doug

<p>some interesting quotes</p><p>James Madison said</p><p>"Americans need never fear their government because of the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every othernation."</p><p>"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a freecountry; but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person."</p><p>"The highest number to which a standing army can be carried in any country does not exceed one hundredth part of the souls, or one twenty-fifth part ofthe number able to bear arms. This portion would not yield, in the United States, an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would beopposed a militia amounting to near half a million citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their commonliberties and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted whether a militia thus circumstanced couldever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops. ... Besides the advantage of being armed, ... the existence of subordinate governments ... forms abarrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. ... [The governments of Europe]are afraid to trust the people with arms. ... Let us not insult the free and gallant citizens of America with the suspicion that they would be less able todefend the rights of which they would be in actual possession than the debased subjects of arbitrary power would be to rescue theirs from the hands of theiroppressors."</p><p>GEORGE WASHINGTON</p><p>"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence. Thechurch, the plow, the prairie wagon, and citizen's firearms are indelibly related. From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events,occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable. Every corner of this landknows firearms, and more than 99 99/100 percent of them by their silence indicate they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere andeverywhere restrains evil interference; they deserve a place with all that's good. When firearms go, all goes; we need them every hour."</p><p>Alexander Hamilton</p><p>"Let us recollect that peace or war will not always be left to our option; that however moderate or unambitious we may be, we cannot count upon themoderation, or hope to extinguish the ambition of others. ... The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."</p><p>"If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no recourse left but in the exertion of that original right ofself-defense..."</p><p>Elbridge Gerry</p><p>"What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. ...Whenever Governments mean to invadethe rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins."</p><p>John F. Kennedy</p><p>"... By calling attention to a well-regulated militia for the security of the Nation, and the right of each citizen to keep and bear arms, our foundingfathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy. Although it is extremely unlikely that the fear of governmental tyranny, which gave rise tothe 2nd amendment, will ever be a major danger to our Nation, the amendment still remains an important declaration of our basic military-civilian relationship,in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason I believe the 2nd Amendment will always beimportant."</p><p>Patrick Henry</p><p>"The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun"</p><p>"Have we the means of resisting disciplined armies, when our only defence, the militia, is put in the hands of Congress?"</p><p>Tench Coxe</p><p>"Whereas civil rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as military forces, which must beoccasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in theirright to keep and bear their private arms."</p><p>randy</p>

<blockquote> They were thinking of invasion by foreign countries, namely England.</blockquote>Lets not forget France and Spain.<br><br>~Joe<br>

<blockquote> <strong class="quote-title">PeepingScott wrote:</strong> <hr> I'm keeping my guns NO MATTER WHAT. If ever questioned, I'll say they were stolen. I'm tempted to pick up another handgun, but don't want a paper trail... <br></blockquote><br><br>You have a stick with a clothespin and a rubber band..... QUIT YER POSING WIT DA BOYS!!!!!!

without guns, we would still be an over grown English colony, or part of a larger mexico, or russia, or Japan, or....or....

The Emperor of Japan specifically ruled against an invasion of the U.S. for this very reason. He said that the Japanese Army would not only be up against avery formidable military but that they would not be able to control the masses. Greg.........that is what our forefathers intended. Canada is "safe"because it borders the U.S. England is still England because "we" took an interest in keeping it from Hitler. An Army can fight anotherArmy.........it's when they are hiding behind every tree and road sign that you can't determine who the enemy is. Sound familiar? Kind of like Iraqright now??????

<blockquote> <strong class="quote-title">Iamredliner wrote:</strong> <hr> The Emperor of Japan specifically ruled against an invasion of the U.S. for this very reason. He said that the Japanese Army would not only be up against a very formidable military but that they would not be able to control the masses. Greg.........that is what our forefathers intended. <font size="4"><strong>Canada is "safe" because it borders the U.S.</strong></font> <font size="4"><strong>England is still England because "we" took an interest in keeping it from Hitler</strong></font>. An Army can fight another Army.........it's when they are hiding behind every tree and road sign that <font size="4"><strong>you can't determine who the enemy is</strong></font>. <strong><font size="4">Sound familiar? Kind of like Iraq right now??????</font></strong></blockquote><strong>Hear hear.......<br><br>Sound even more familiar? Kind of like Vietnam back then? The jungles were nothing nice either, and more than 58,000 paid the price there to proveit........<img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/tired.gif" alt="image"><br><br>And France? They're just a bunch of weak pussies, always willing to lay down and die whenever an invader sets foot in their waste of land country........<br><br><br><br></strong><br><br>

RLJ stated: "And France? They're just a bunch of weak pussies, always willing to lay down and die whenever an invader sets foot in their waste of landcountry........ "<br><br><br>Geeez! ............. Don't sugar-coat it, Johnny! Tell us what you REALLY think! LOL! :-)<br>I could not agree more! And history proves it!<br><br>As far as our US government is concerned, I'm not currently armed. But don't test that by trying to break into my home. I will remain armed (fordefensive purposes) until the day I die. In current times, we, the private citizens, ARE the militia that the 2nd amendment refers to.

on the flip side, the 2nd amendment is open to interpretation on either side, not only to an "extreme" end. My grandfather was hidden by Frenchresistance during WW2 for a brief moment, those Frenchies had balls....

<blockquote> <strong class="quote-title">ccandgc wrote:</strong> <hr> on the flip side, the 2nd amendment is open to interpretation on either side, not only to an "extreme" end. My grandfather was hidden by French resistance during WW2 for a brief moment, those Frenchies had balls....</blockquote><p><br><strong>Chad, the French Resistance were a small group of men and women, who truly believed in fighting and dying for their country, as opposed to the millionsof others who jumped to the Nazi ship, and those government officials who led the Nazi installed Vichy government..........<br><br>French women who consorted with the Nazis, were villified and had their heads shaved. Wow, amazing how tuff the Frenchies became, lol, after we came in andbailed their asses out, AGAIN!</strong></p><p><strong>Those handful of Resistance Frogs i can respect, all the rest can go to Hell, as it only took Hitler's Blitzkrieg 6 weeks to conquer France,they literally laid down for them, and didn't even try to fight, for fear of their beloved Paris being reduced to complete ruin........<br><br>What a bunch of, well, you know........<img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/wink.gif" alt="image"></strong><br></p>

<blockquote> <font size="4"><strong>Canada is "safe" because it borders the U.S.</strong></font></blockquote><font size="4"><strong><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); font-weight: normal;">Nope, we're safe cuz we're a quiet country whodoesn't go around pissing people off.</span> <img style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); font-weight: normal;" src="http://www.ezboard.com/image/posticons/pi_lazysmile.gif" alt="image"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); font-weight: normal;"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); font-weight: normal;"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); font-weight: normal;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255); font-weight: normal;">~Karen</span><br><br><br></strong></font>

<blockquote> <strong class="quote-title">twinny4 wrote:</strong> <hr><blockquote> <font size="4"><strong>Canada is "safe" because it borders the U.S.</strong></font> </blockquote><font size="4"><strong><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,255)">Nope, we're safe cuz we're a quiet country who doesn't go around pissing people off.</span> <img style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,255)" alt="image" src="http://www.ezboard.com/image/posticons/pi_lazysmile.gif"><br style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,255)"><br style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,255)"><br style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,255)"><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,255)">~Karen</span> <br><br><br></strong></font></blockquote><br><br><img height="20" src="http://www.ezboard.com/image/posticons/pi_tongue.gif" width="20" alt="image">

Canada is so safe, that it takes twice as long to get mail from there, than it does from the Philippines , UK or even Australia. <img src="http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif">

<p>I've got much to say, but don't have the time to say it. But the one thing I must express is my dismay at being a member of a Board where bigotryand racism are so freely and blatantly expressed by some. I can't fathom this at all, especially from people that I respect and consider friends... Clearly, I often express opinions that are not in the mainstream, which makes me feel like something of an outsider anyway, but this issue really makes mequestion whether I belong here.<br><br>Greg</p>

<br><blockquote> <font color="#FF3300"><font color="#FF3300">Clearly, I often express opinions that are not in the mainstream, which makes me feel like something of an outsider anyway, but this issue really makes me question whether I belong here.</font></font></blockquote><br><strong>Come on, Greg... you belong here! All you have to do is ignore &amp; not voice your opinions in whatever threads with sticky issues.<br>I love your cars &amp; your threads in Unite. <br>Please stay!</strong> <img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/happy.gif" alt="image"><br>

The French are a race now? HJ

Michael, you're right - but it's not so much that I mind that my opinion is in the minority in the sticky issues, but just being associated with aBoard where that kind of sentiment is on display...<br><br>Jack, although I've seen racist comments in other threads, this one would fall under the category of "bigotry" which is the hatred andintolerance of any group, be it racial, social or national. It also baffles me that a discussion of gun control would turn into a discussion of hatred of thepeople of a particular country...<br><br>Greg

<blockquote> <strong class="quote-title">groggerbug wrote:</strong> <hr> Michael, you're right - but it's not so much that I mind that my opinion is in the minority in the sticky issues, but just being associated with a Board where that kind of sentiment is on display... <br><br> Jack, although I've seen racist comments in other threads, this one would fall under the category of "bigotry" which is the hatred and intolerance of any group, be it racial, social or national. It also baffles me that a discussion of gun control would turn into a discussion of hatred of the people of a particular country... <br><br> Greg <br><br></blockquote><strong>Hmmmmm, not sure on how to reply to this, as i consider G a good friend, so out of respect for him, i'll keep mum from now on thisthread, but i will stand by my previous comments and opinions, as i am entitled to them, just as anybody else's comments and opinions are........</strong>

I was actually surprised this morning when it was still up! LOL!

Johnny, I consider you a good friend also. And know that my comments were not aimed at you alone.<br><br>As always with friends and relations, sometimes you have to agree to disagree. While I would defend, to the death, your right to have and express youropinions, on this particular issue, I must also exercise my right to express my profound disagreement. It's nothing personal, but it is an ideal that Ihold very dear - the end of all hatred and intolerance. I'm a dreamer? Yeah.<br><br>It's just that when I find this kind of thing being expressed on this site with some frequency, it really does make me question how much I am aligned withit. I'll always consider all of you as friends, but I just don't know how much I want to be involved if our philosophies are that much different...<br><br>I'll be around because I will always love the cars, and the friendships. And maybe I should do as Michael suggested and ignore the "hot topics",but I'm just not the kind of guy to turn a blind eye when I see something that I feel very strongly about.<br><br>Greg

Greg, come one, so Johnny doesn't care for how the French handled themselves in WWII. That's him-it should be noted that it's the truth without thecolorful catchphrases. He's one of 4000 members here, so take it for what it is worth. Greg, I respect your right to vote against our right to bare arms,but you might want to take a long look around, especially in your back yard. The US, and the many other countries are bording on economic times, like WE HAVENEVER SEEN BEFORE. We are already paperworked for firearms, so what are they REALLY up to now?

You guys are gonna be just fine; you'll get to keep your guns. Stop and consider the ramifications following a citizen gun-owners' directive to handthem over. It isn't going to happen. I don't have one; though many close friends - and family members - of mine own a gun or guns. They keep them forshooting at rocks in the desert, but they don't need them and probably never will (like I'll probably never need the sealed Marine-issue gas-mask andfour sealed chem-suits that I have in my closet). This isn't Iraq, Vietnam, or any other third-world country. We're always entitled to our opinionshere, and I have nothing but respect for everyone's, though I may even disagree. Nobody's going to take your guns, just as nobody's going to takeour muscle cars or hot rods. Someone will always want to, but there will also be many bigger fish to fry. And don't forget; a board with a nail in it willnever run out of ammunition.

<blockquote> <strong class="quote-title">groggerbug wrote:</strong> <hr> It also baffles me that a discussion of gun control would turn into a discussion of hatred of the people of a particular country... <br><br> Greg</blockquote>Greg are you kidding on this board it'll go from guns to football to you tube. That's the norm.<br><br>

And I will add that there are not "that" many "bigots" here to get your hair to curl. <br><img height="20" src="http://www.ezboard.com/image/posticons/pi_hippie.gif" width="20" alt="image">Later, Steve<p><br></p>

I don't see any "bigots" here, just some of us who discriminate. I discriminate against deadbeat able bodied breeders on welfare and illegalaliens. Both of those groups come in all colors. ALL colors...<img src="http://static.yuku.com//domainskins/bypass/img/smileys/ohwell.gif" alt="image"> Ialso discriminate against thieves, again, coming in all colors...<br>Side note: If you've met Greg in person, you will recognize his outstanding qualities. One of the nicest people you can ever meet! A true, sincereperson, top notch...<br>

"Greg are you kidding on this board it'll go from guns to football to you tube. That's the norm. "<br><br>I'm with Pete on that one. This isn't really LBR, this is should really be called the Hall of ADD. So far, this topic is right on par.