Mans best friend. Whats Your take on this breed?

OK so i recently find out that Now a new " Rule" In the city i live in, says No Pitbulls at all. Used to be able to have 2. And just so happens i have 2. Just wondering what peoples thoughts are on this breed??

I have had my dogs for 2 years now.And NEVER I REPEAT NEVER Had any sort of problem at all. My dogs are inside dogs. They are let out (in a confined area) To use the restroom. And we go on walks now and again. Always with a Harness. They just love other people, and are quite calm and controlled. We have a german Shepard rite next door that does nothing besides bark, and howl, all day and night every day and night. My dogs dont give him a second thought.

Any way just was wondering what other think of this breed? Its not the breed for every body. They are very strong dogs, and take time, to work with. But in the end, in my book they are the absolute best pets out there!! Here are a couple pics of My Male, the satin of breeds. This dog is afraid of his own shadow. As seen nearly eating my daughter alive. LOL

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I'm never comfortable around Pits. I try to remain calm and pretend that I like them when I'm around them, but I'm not and don't. I've never had issues with them, but the stigma surrounding the breed is enough. Past history of Pits is enough for me. I understand that all are not bad, but so many have been bred and trained wrong, and have done some horrific things that get the attention of the media. I don't recall ever hearing other breeds maiming and killing humans, but maybe once in a while. They've earned their reputation (thanks to the owners who trained them). I have been around very nice Pits on many occasions, but I still have that odd feeling around them...unlike any odd feeling I get around other dogs.

As far as your neighbors damn excessive barking dog, you need to address it to make them responsible pet owners. I finally won my battle with my neighbor, but it took a mini campaign to make it happen. I was at the point where I was going to snap after several correspondences with Animal Control, who's hands were tied with me being the only complaint. They told me to file a formal complaint and that there would be a court date set in which both parties would have to appear. They suggested I record the barking episodes, which I have. I put signs up in the neighborhood encouraging other people to please report excessive barking dogs due to ignorant pet owners. The signs would be torn down in a day, but I put more right back up, and even put them on the doorsteps of the neighbors surrounding the irresponsible owners home. Three days later, problem solved. Haven't heard a bark since. I'm hoping they gave the dog to a good home with people who actually want a dog, unlike them who NEVER played with him, NEVER did anything with him. I felt sorry for the dog, and knew it wasn't his fault, but his stupid owners fault. It's all about respect for your neighbors, and it sounds like your dogs fit the bill Mike!
Sorry to go off on a tangent, but that's what I do..............

Pits have a bad rap, whether justified or not, which puts people on edge when they encounter one. Dogs can sense this and it can make the situation worse. I knew someone many years ago with a pit and I never had a problem with it. Had a bit of a scary look to it but it didn;t seem like bad dog. As with any animals, some have better dispositions than others. Friend of mine had a cat that would attack him with full claws and teeth with no provocation. Just happened to be a psycho cat.

That said, I would get a pit bull as it's not my type of dog but I believe they can be great pets if they are treated well and trained well. It's not usually the dog that is the problem, it's the owner.

_Allan_

Thats understandable Scott. Alot of people feel like that. The breed has a Rep. I would say that most of the bad dogs have had bad training or none at all. OR Bad breeding. Dont expect to get a good natured dog of any breed, by going out and buying a dog for 50 bucks. Both My dogs are from a very Reputable Breeder. It is very understandable what you are sayin. Just wish people would take the time to understand this breed and give it a chance. A good loving Pit, is a GREAT pet. But as soon as people see stuff in the news, its all over. All Pits are BAD???? NOT TRUE!

As far as the Shepard next door, i have had the Phone in my hand many times, but never made the call. The poor dog has no food or water during the day, And no Companionship at all. That is a pure case of BS owners.

And for God sake do not buy any type puppy from a pet store!

I feel the same way as Scott does word for word, on the pits and the barking dog.

I have called the police on the people that live behind me but I tell the cops that I think the house is being burglarized so the cops come out and tell the poeple to shut the dogs up people think your getting robbed. LOL. But sadly that only works one or two times the problem goes on and you have to deal with it, but as you have bolth said it's most always the owners neglict that leads the dogs to bark all night.

I agree Pits have gotten a bad rap, All dogs will act badly if trained to do so, My neice had her ear bitten off when she was 8, only because she cut across a lawn on her way home from school. The German Sheppard had been abused as it was growing up and attacked when she came on his lawn. I owned a Doberman years ago, and they got the same bad rap way back then. Everyone in town was afraid of him only because of what the media was saying about Dobermans back then. He was the biggest baby going. If dogs are trained right and live in a loving home they will be amazing pets. Just my two cents.

Oh to cure the neighbour with the barking dog. Do what I did. I work nights and the neighbour would not look after his dog. He would bark all day long. SO finally I had had enough and started calling the neighbour on the phone at 3 am. I would ask him how he liked being woke up. Funny thing the dog stopped barking lol. Worked like a charm

A friend of mine had a Pit named Phil, who was a well trained, fun loving Pit who was hilarious at times. He was well taken care of, and well managed and a very disciplined member of the family. My brother has a Rottweiler that he was able to get from a shelter in TX (took some convincing, since she'd been there so long). He brought her back to Iowa and she is a beautiful and fun loving member of the family - she has a tendency to swing her hips and try to take you out at the knees when you're playing with her. My brother has recently trained her to tree furbearers and has since been able to bag a few raccoons on outings recently. I was recently able to adopt my nephew's Husky, which was named after my first dog. His Dad was moving to an apartment and couldn't take him with. He's been a joy to have around and he's settling in well.

The only dogs I've ever had problems with are a dalmatian and a min-pin. In both cases, I was an unfamiliar person in their territories and didn't do anything that I recall to antagonize them.

Blame the deed, not the breed.

Mike, I have a female 9 year old Pitbull. My son brought her home as a puppy and we bacically took her from him and raised her as our own.
She has the best temperment of any dog I have owned and has never acted agressively, just playfully toward any other animal or person.

It is the owner of any breed that deciedes how the dog will be around people or other pets and IMO this breed has a bad rap!

As most have mentioned its more about the owner rather than the dogs themselves that define their behavior.Also the breed is misidentified in so many cases where there has been an attack because its so simple to just say the dog bites so it must be a Pit Bull.Here is a link to test your skills.

[URL]http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html[/URL]

Here is a pic of my 135 pound buddy Bruce and I.He is a service dog so you could see him in your local grocery store or bank etc.Is he a Pit Bull too ...

[IMG]http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k504/69ch/DSC01144_crop.jpg[/IMG]

Eric

Mike,
I think the pit bulls and few other breeds, like dobermans, do get a bad rap. It seems like the news media also taints the view the public has for these dogs by profiling all of these dogs, mostly pits, as aggressive.

Growing up we always had cats and dogs. I have seen more signs of aggression from poodles and smaller dogs, and some cats, than most of the bigger breeds I have been around. I have owned 2 black labs and German Shepperd and they all were good dogs. They were all nurtured well when they were raised. So I am a firm believer that it is all in how they are raised and cared for, not the breed. Any breed of dog has the potential to be aggressive.

A few summers ago my girlfriend and I rescued a young female dog running the streets at night and brought her to my home. We did not know what breed she was because it was so dark and she had no tags. When we got her into my house under the lights, we discovered she was a pit bull. She was such a sweet dog and never showed any signs of aggression towards us. She spent the night in bed with us like she new us for a long time. She was such a good dog, I knew someone would be looking for her. We set out the following day retracing her tracks several miles away and with a stroke of luck found her owners combing the streets looking for her. They were elated that she was found and someone would return her. We were both taken aback by what a wonderful dog she was! [I]Bill[/I]

From one doggie lover to another thats a cool story Bill.

Hey Mike,you picked a topic I like so Im only trying to help.It just seems wrong that the city can tell you to kick out a family member from your home.There has to be a loop hole somewhere ... I will keep looking ... Is there any way you can say he is some other breed ...

Eric

[QUOTE=69ch;479227]From one doggie lover to another thats a cool story Bill.

Hey Mike,you picked a topic I like so Im only trying to help.It just seems wrong that the city can tell you to kick out a family member from your home.There has to be a loop hole somewhere ... I will keep looking ... Is there any way you can say he is some other breed ...

Eric[/QUOTE]

No i ask for every bodys thoughts. And i have not heard 1 real negative thing yet. They can Kiss my @SS i am keeping my 2 other kids. I love them like they were my real kids. They never get mad at me they dont hold a grudge, and un conditional love. Both of them. And just to make it clear dont believe everything you read or hear. They dont talk about the good things, only the bad.

Hey Mike,

I am sorry to hear about the city banning your dogs.

I have met several nice Pit bulls .

Regarding the barking neighbor dog...it is the owners fault not the dog.
When my dogs bark at night I immediately bring them in and tell them to stop barking.

Here is another breed that gets a bad rap every so often.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]49689[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]49690[/ATTACH]

My dog Shadow who died at a young age of 5 from bone Cancer.

I still think about him alot and even call my new dog "Shadow" by mistake.

Hope it works out for you.

The breed is not the problem, it's the owners, bad owners equal bad dogs and vice versa, don't register them as pits, I will mess the spelling up I am sure but I know many who call them American stratishires or something like that, they are legal and don't come with the stigma. I know several great pits, he'll the dog on the little rascals was one

Location ...

[URL]http://mprgroup.net/misc/bsl.html[/URL]

Eric

I have heard many people say that there Pit Bulls are gentle and good dogs and I'm sure some are. I just think that they have it in them to snap at any time just like Dobermans. I have never had a bad experience myself but really haven't spent much time around Pits. I have known 2 Dobermans and they both had to be locked up when company was over while showing there teeth. I was charged by a friends Doberman and luckily I had boots on and kicked him in the jaw to protect myself. He went away wimpering and things got a little weird between my friend and me. I believe that no matter what breed you have you will love the dog and that breed. Just works like that. Taking a mans dog is worse then taking his women.

Gary, my wife brings in alot more money than my dog, so I would have to disagree with you

It's all about the education. The dog's, the owner's and the public's. Too many breeds have gotten bad press. Seems they simply pick a new "whipping boy" when the old one grows tired. I've never had an issue with a Pit... or a Rotty, or a Dobie, or an American Staffordshire or any other breed that was propperly raised and cared for. ANY breed can be ill trained. Once it's imprinted, it's never all trained out. Once the public's imprinted on a breed being "evil" that's never trained out either. The main stream media is the very Ike of the issue, especially when news is slow. 1 person starts making noise, most of the time unwarranted, and all the ignorant people with nothing to do jump on the band wagon.

In 2003 we took our amazing "Pooperdog" in off the street. We had no idea what she was, where she'd been or how old she was. She was a mutt street dog with a street dog attitude. She kept that attitude, even though she didn't need it. She developed into a well trained, well mannered dog... until she decided she didn't like you. Outside the house she was a totally differant dog than inside or in the yard. On a leash and walking she'd sit to be petted, lay patiently and be the picture perfect pooch. In the truck, yard or house, you were HER b!#*h and she let you know it. We never could train the imprinted attitude out of her. In all that time she had 1 incident where she "nipped" a friend's daughter. The little girl stepped on her foot from behind and spooked her. Just a scratch, and her only bad mark.

Pooper went on her last ride with us on July 16th. She was with us for 8 years, and they were hopefully the best 8 of her whole 16. She struggled through her last 6 months and never quit... even when she could barely walk or stand on her own. We miss her every day, and so do our other 2 dogs. She set the bar for us as to what all other dogs are judged by.

I guess where I'm going is that "a dog is a dog is a dog" on the inside. A blind man only knows a warm furry lick on the cheek. But someone who watches the news, sees the bias towards these breeds... they have the pre-determined opinion that they're bad... until one changes thier life.

Sorry so long winded here... Just my opinion.

Jeff!

Thanks for the replies. I remember when i took my male to the animal hospital to have its shots and its ears clipped. The Doc telling me that the breed with the most bites reported was the Ol ankle biter, he could not recall the last pit bite.

Did the city offer Pit owners an invitation to the meeting when/where the decision was made? Was it advertised? Was it even on the agenda? Those Pits already existing in the city should have a grandfather clause, and if not - there may be grounds to at the very least petition the new law (which may not get much of a following due to the stigma) or if you're willing and able to, fight for your four legged family members. If your pits have never had a complaint made against them, you may stand a chance. If nothing else, there is an opportunity there to educate the lawmakers.

Another option beyond that is to requestthe city pay for your move to a new home in a Pit friendly city (or in the country) where you will now move to because they have essentially made you a criminal by proxy. Since they provided little effort for owners of good Pits to formally assemble and discuss the repercussions of the new law with the lawmakers or request a grandfather clause.

^^^Good Points^^^

Are Pit Bulls Illegal in Wentzville?

[URL]http://www.wentzvillemo.org/pit-bulls-illegal.aspx[/URL]

eric

[QUOTE=wishihad;479308]Thanks for the replies. I remember when i took my male to the animal hospital to have its shots and its ears clipped. The Doc telling me that the breed with the most bites reported was the Ol ankle biter, he could not recall the last pit bite.[/QUOTE]

With all due respect to you Mike and your pits, when a pit bull bites it isn't an "ankle biter" bite. The victim usually goes to the hospital and the dog usually goes to the animal control for quarantine. I don't know any dog owners who would brag and tell the Doc about what their pitty just did. It is usually a full on attack until something drastic happens to get the pit bull to stop.
They are and can be very loving dogs but once they start an attack, it usually ends up a very vicious attack. This is the way the dogs were bred and it is in their genes. It is an uncontrollable reaction and not a thoughtful decision the dog makes.

My brother has owned pit bulls for the last 40 years without an incident but he must be very careful about having the front door latched at all times because many times his pit tried to run through the screen(a custom made screen door) to get to the next door neighbors standard poodle while it wandered over to crap on "his" front lawn. Only the 800.00 custom screen door saved the standard poodle on several occasions. Yet, all the kids on the block can come down and play inside the house without any issues. The kids even "ride" the pit like a horse with the dog seeming to love the interaction.

With that said, I wish only the best to you and your situation.

Jeff

If the Pit locks jaws its all over ... Submission is usually the only exit for the victim.A pro can use a stick to unlock the jaws,words of command rarely work.Its in their genes.I offered my spare time to walk dogs at the best animal rescue shelter in the US for 2.5 hours per week for a one year commitment.I met many breeds ... The Pit strain would test me on walks.Granted they were in jail so to speak.Although without exception,they would run at full bore and let the leash run the max 20 feet out.I could see it comming and prepared myself for the yank.The harness would spin them a 180 looking at me in the face and they are like what are you gonna do about it.Had I panic that would not be a good thing.The smell of fear is only natural for them to detect and act upon.I react like its all good dude and they dont try it agian with me.

Eric

i have trained many breeds of k9s .and i think its muffed up some breeds get a bad rep. dogs respond to there surrounding people other animals and etc.if you take a dog and train it to be aggreesive you have a aggreesive dog.in short i have NEVER ENCOUNTERED A AGGREESIVE BREED.a dog is like a child the way you raise it is the way it will be.i cant see how they can single out one breed and say you cant have it!!!!thats like saying people of a certain religion,race or sex cant live there you only here of the attacks of some breeds never how loyal,gentle and loving they can be if raised (trained) correctly.i wish you all the best just doesnt seem constitutional to me.

Its all good peeps. Every body has an opinion, and they are entitled to it. All pits are different, maybe i just got some good ones?? I know i paid good $$ for them, so i would not have problems. Either way i love my dogs, Craig AKA (bossmiller) Has been over several times and been in company with my dogs. The only thing i remember about that is they tried to attack him with the love, and lick down. Its all a personal preference. I have had many breeds of dogs, and this is the one for me. (at least the ones i have now) I also am a big fan of the Rott. Another great dog!! I just will not sit back and let the city tell me what pet, i can own. After having these dogs for a while, And as far as the dog next door?? Every day gets harder to handle. Little kids walking down the sidewalk, and this dog is going crazy. Yanking his chain to the max, and barking. Like he is ready to kill?? Maybe he would not do anything?? BUT maybe so?? Show pitbull love! Thanks for the comments every body!!

[QUOTE=69ch;479417]If the Pit locks jaws its all over ... [/QUOTE]
Ahhh.... the locking jaws myth. One of the worst. Simply NOT true.

[URL="http://www.realpitbull.net/myths"]www.realpitbull.net/myths[/URL]

[URL="http://www.dogwatch.net/myths/lock_jaw"]www.dogwatch.net/myths/lock_jaw[/URL]

[URL="http://www.defendingdog.com"]www.defendingdog.com[/URL]

[URL="http://www.happypitbull.com/basic/myths-and-facts"]www.happypitbull.com/basic/myths-and-facts[/URL]

The list goes on. Exactly what I was saying about the media propogating the evilness. "Official" people speaking lies can never be defeated by the average man telling the truth.

Jeff!

Poor choice of words,my bad.They just have VERY strong jaw muscles and are tenacious enough to hold on no matter what.This is because bulldog breeds were originally bred to work Bulls, they would grab the bull by the nose and swing their bodies to turn the bull.

Eric

A few weeks ago in CT 2 pitbulls attacked and killed a toddler who was asleep in bed. She was a guest in the house. I have no use for the breed myself. I really don't care if it's the dogs fault or the owners fault. The bottom line is almost every time you hear of a dog attack guess what it's a Pit Bull.

Bulldogs were originally bred for bull baiting,bear baiting in the 1800s. Which was the dog that pinned the bull down was the winner.little like a chicken fight.and yes they are trained to grab a bull by the nose but only long enough to secure a rope around the bulls neck!never swinging there body to turn a bull!!

Im not going to split hairs with breeds.The whole reason for this post was to figure out a way for Mike to keep his dog at home.I have done my best.That said,all will be happy to know I have retired from this thread.Good luck Mike.

Eric

Mike,
Lobo has a very good point there. The city should have offered a "Grandfather Clause" for existing residential presence. The city can't force you to become a criminal, or as he states a "criminal by proxy". It was the same back in the 80's when the "Brady Bill" was passed banning high capacity magazines. Any mag's already in the system, or any pistol shipped with them was "Grandfathered". As long as you have proof that you owned the dogs and lived within the city limits before the ban was enacted, and that your dogs have never had an incident report filed, you have all the legal ammo' you could hope for. Some of the foundations who specialize in Pit awarness and defense might even offer free legal service to help you keep your dogs.

It'll be a definate advantage to seek proffesional legal advice in your area, but there are some things the Government just can't do.

Godspeed and keep us informed.

Jeff!

[QUOTE=thunderkat;479493]Bulldogs were originally bred for bull baiting,bear baiting in the 1800s. Which was the dog that pinned the bull down was the winner.little like a chicken fight.and yes they are trained to grab a bull by the nose but only long enough to secure a rope around the bulls neck!never swinging there body to turn a bull!![/QUOTE]
Those bulldogs were ALOT bigger than today's breeds

I really hope that you can find a way to keep your dogs (legally) - I agree that Pit Bulls needs special consideration but they do get a very bad rap. One of the sweetest dogs that I have ever been around was a rescued Pit Bull that my husband and I found on the side of the road. Someone had taken a baseball bat to the side of her head. We took her to the vet .... racking up big $$'s :)

The vet said someone probably did that to her because she could not be provoked. She did not pay any attention to any of the oter dogs in the boarding facility. She only wanted human attention ... did not growl or get distracted a bit by other dogs barking at her. The vet's college age son really wanted to adopt her but the vet talked him out of it only because of the trouble that his son would have getting an apartment etc.

As the vet said, he'd rather have a pit bull anyday than board a ****zu :) We were eventually able to get her to a Pit Bull rescue ... healthy and happy.

Here is what the American Humane Society says about Breed Specific Legislaton (BSL):

[B]Dog Bites[/B]

[B]Dog bite statistics[/B]
[LIST][*]An estimated 4.7 million dog bites occur in the U.S. each year<SUP>2,3</SUP>[*]Nearly 800,000 dog bites require medical care<SUP>2</SUP>[*]Approximately 92% of fatal dog attacks involved male dogs, 94% of which were not neutered<SUP>1</SUP>[*]Approximately 25% of fatal dog attacks involved chained dogs1[*]Approximately 71% of bites occur to the extremities (arms, legs, hands, feet)<SUP>2</SUP>[*]Approximately two-thirds of bites occurred on or near the victim’s property, and most victims knew the dog[*]The insurance industry pays more than $1 billion in dog-bite claims each year<SUP>3</SUP>[*]At least 25 different breeds of dogs have been involved in the 238 dog-bite-related fatalities in the U.S.<SUP>4</SUP>[*]Approximately 24% of human deaths involved unrestrained dogs off of their owners’ property<SUP>4</SUP>[*]Approximately 58% of human deaths involved unrestrained dogs on their owners’ property<SUP>4</SUP>[/LIST][B]Breed-specific legislation (BSL)[/B]
[LIST][*]In response to these statistics, many communities have enacted breed-specific legislation (BSL) that prohibits ownership of certain breeds, such as pit bulls, Rottweilers and others.[*]Any breed of dog can bite, and research suggests BSL does little to protect the community from dog-bite incidents.[*]In fact, BSL can often have unintended consequences -- such as black-market interest and indiscriminant breeding practices -- resulting in subsequent breed overpopulation that leads to increases in the number of homeless, stray and euthanized dogs.[*]Enforcement of BSL has been shown to be very costly and extremely difficult to enforce. One county in Maryland spent more than $560,000 maintaining pit bulls (not including payroll, cross-agency costs and utilities), while fees generated only $35,000.5[*]Responsible breeding and ownership, public education and enforcement of existing laws are the most effective ways of reducing dog bites.[*]American Humane supports local legislation to protect communities from dangerous animals, but does not advocate laws that target specific breeds of dogs.[/LIST]

Thanks guys and gals. We will just take it day by day and see what happens. I have not yet been notified of anything so we will see.

[FONT=Tahoma]I approach every dog as an individual, just like people. Before acquiring any dog, do as much background investigation as possible, birthplace, health check, temperament etc. Pit bulls are also a product of their environment, treat them well and they can be great dogs. Otherwise, deal with the consequences. It’s the *******s that neglect these animals that contributed to the bad reps they have received. And yes, I would consider having one too. :yinyang:[/FONT]

[B]I had a Pitbull mix for 16 years, the sweetest, best Darn Puppy Dog i ever had!![/B]

[B]Love Pitties, it's the owners, not the breed, and i have a piece of history regarding a Pitbull, i'll post a bit later........[/B]

[B]This, is Sgt. Stubby, the most decorated War Dog in U.S. History, and sadly, would not be allowed on Military Bases today.........[/B]
[IMG]http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g186/68RancheroGT/stubby-pitbull.jpg[/IMG]

[B]Read the story about this courageous Pitbull WWI War Hero.........[/B]

[URL]http://riffenberg.wordpress.com/2010/09/26/the-most-decorated-dog-in-history-would-not-be-allowed-on-military-bases-today/[/URL]

[B]Take THAT, Mike Vick!!!![/B]
[IMG]http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g186/68RancheroGT/3676_n.jpg[/IMG]

[B]Believe it, or not.........[/B]
[IMG]http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g186/68RancheroGT/5396_n.jpg[/IMG]

[B]Now Who really is the Monster? This makes me sick!!![/B]
[IMG]http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g186/68RancheroGT/1871_n.jpg[/IMG]

[B]My turn for a bad rap.........[/B]
[IMG]http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g186/68RancheroGT/7674_n.jpg[/IMG]

[B]Mike, i do hope you're able to keep your Pits..........[/B]

[B]Don't get me started on this, cuz i'll choose Pits over People everytime![/B]

[QUOTE=redlinejohnny6872;480078][B]This, is Sgt. Stubby, the most decorated War Dog in U.S. History, and sadly, would not be allowed on Military Bases today.........[/B]
[IMG]http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g186/68RancheroGT/stubby-pitbull.jpg[/IMG]

[B]Read the story about this courageous Pitbull WWI War Hero.........[/B]

[URL]http://riffenberg.wordpress.com/2010/09/26/the-most-decorated-dog-in-history-would-not-be-allowed-on-military-bases-today/[/URL]

[B]Take THAT, Mike Vick!!!![/B]
[IMG]http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g186/68RancheroGT/3676_n.jpg[/IMG]

[B]Believe it, or not.........[/B]
[IMG]http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g186/68RancheroGT/5396_n.jpg[/IMG]

[B]Now Who really is the Monster? This makes me sick!!![/B]
[IMG]http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g186/68RancheroGT/1871_n.jpg[/IMG]

[B]My turn for a bad rap.........[/B]
[IMG]http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g186/68RancheroGT/7674_n.jpg[/IMG]

[B]Mike, i do hope you're able to keep your Pits..........[/B]

[B]Don't get me started on this, cuz i'll choose Pits over People everytime![/B][/QUOTE]

Really Johnny...everytime?