Grandpamike and the First Amendment

<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#999999" size="1"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: #999999; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Associated Press | November 01, 2007</span></font></p>

The sad thing is, Phelps and his gang of inbreds will fight that to the bitter end. I really hope that the father of the fallen soldier receives true justiceand that the Phelpians lose everything. It would be just desserts for them to end up having to ask for a handout from [i]real[i] Christians. Certainly theywouldn't "lower" themselves to asking for help from people of other faiths.

That's a tough one Lane. There's information missing that could affect my opinion so I'll have to give more than one.<br><ul><li>The funeral was on public property - the protesters were exercising their 1st amendment rights.</li> <li>The funeral was on private property and the protesters were on public property - the protesters were exercising their 1st amendment rights.</li> <li>The funeral was on private property and the protesters were on that property but the property owners <span style="font-style: italic;">did not</span> ask them to leave - the protesters were exercising their 1st amendment rights.</li> <li>The funeral was on private property, the protesters were on that property and the property owners <span style="font-style: italic;">did</span> ask them to leave - the protesters were violating the privacy of the bereaved.</li></ul>There is also the issue of whether the funeral was advertised in the "Public Notices" section of a newspaper. The family could not reasonablyexpect privacy if it was no matter where it was held. If it was in the "Funeral Notices" with the statement "public welcome", the samewould be true.<br><br>If we assume the trial was fair, then we also have to assume the jury did the right thing. However, if the judge allowed personal feelings to cloud the mannerin which he conducted the trial and give jury instructions, then the jurors may not have known their rights and voted as instructed. There is also thepossibility that the jurors let their own prejudices get in the way of a constitutionally correct verdict.<br><br>While I absolutely think the defendants are, well, misinformed, they certainly have the constitutional right to make their views visible to the public at largeproviding they do not violate the constitutional rights of others.<br><br><blockquote> you enjoy the benefits of being an American but like to work the system to your advantage.</blockquote>I'm really not sure exactly what you mean by that. It sort of looks like two parts of the same thing. I've been thinking about a partialanswer but will save it until I know more. The "work the system" part has me baffled.<br><br>Gramps<br><br>

Gramps and I don't always agree on issues, but I don't think he "works the system" to his advantage. Gramps is a believer in theConstitution, that is all.<br><br>Steve

Steve, to say I'm "a believer" in the constitution isn't quite correct. At this point in time, and for the last 230 years, the constitutionis and has been the root of the government we have. In order to keep government from getting totally out of control (it's only 99% out of control now), theconstitution must be followed. Once the government is returned to it's constitutional levels, only then can we realistically begin the process ofcompletely removing government interference from our lives. What I do believe is that the complete absence of government and religion is absolutely necessaryfor a totally civilized and peaceful world. That is not to say that the absence of government and religion would automatically and immediately result in acivilized and peaceful world but it would be a giant step in that direction.<br><br><br>"To be governed is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled,checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so."<br>Pierre-Joseph Proudhon<br><br>"There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."<br>Daniel Webster<br><br>"The essence of Government is power; and power, lodged as it must be in human hands, will ever be liable to abuse."<br>James Madison<br><br>"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."<br>Seneca<br><br>"We cannot resolve the problems of the world by using the same techniques that have created them."<br>Albert Einstein<br><br>"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not yourcounsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you"<br>Samuel Adams<br><br>Gramps

Heh, Gramps, right after I posted that I knew you would correct me. What I should have said is "given the current order of things, Gramps simply believesthat the Constitution should be followed."<br>How about that?

Gramps and a Republican candidate may have more in common than you think:<br><br>www.ronpaul2008.com<br><br>Stupid yuku still won't let me do links on a mac...sorry!

That particular republican is the first candidate for anything I've ever supported. I've donated to his campaign and will again tomorrow. I'll beparticipating in the "money bomb" organized by the good doctor's supporters that hopes to raise $10 million for his campaign in one day. Theypicked November 5th because of it's historical significance. The movie "V For Vendetta" probably had a lot to do with it too. Very importantmovie.<br><br>Gramps<br>

I agree....Ron Paul is the first "real" republican and conservative candidate I have ever had a chance to vote for. He gets my money tomorrow aswell.<br><br>And V is a great film...engaging, scary, and all too real. Mandatory viewing....<br><br>And as far as the above example of funeral protestors goes.....as much as I abhor their seemingly hateful and hypocritical message I'll let Noam Chomskysay it because he says it so well:<br><br>"If we don't believe in freedom of expression for<br>people we despise, we don't believe in it at all."<br>-Noam Chomsky

Here ya go Dave...hope all is well. Say hey to Andrea and Dad!<br><br><a target="_blank" href="http://www.ronpaul2008.com/">http://www.ronpaul2008.com/</a>

I'm there too!<br>Later Steve

Here's the speech made by "V" when he took over the airwaves in the movie...an introduction to a revolution if you will:<br><br>Allow me first to apologize for this interruption. I do, like many of you, appreciate the comforts of every day routine- the security of the familiar, thetranquility of repetition. I enjoy them as much as any bloke. But in the spirit of commemoration, thereby those important events of the past usually associatedwith someone's death or the end of some awful bloody struggle, a celebration of a nice holiday, I thought we could mark this November the 5th, a day thatis sadly no longer remembered, by taking some time out of our daily lives to sit down and have a little chat. There are of course those who do not want us tospeak. I suspect even now, orders are being shouted into telephones, and men with guns will soon be on their way. Why? Because while the truncheon may be usedin lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. Andthe truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you hadthe freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting yoursubmission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but againtruth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War,terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in yourpanic you turned to the now high chancellor, Adam Sutler. He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedientconsent. Last night I sought to end that silence. Last night I destroyed the Old Bailey, to remind this country of what it has forgotten. More than fourhundred years ago a great citizen wished to embed the fifth of November forever in our memory. His hope was to remind the world that fairness, justice, andfreedom are more than words, they are perspectives. So if you've seen nothing, if the crimes of this government remain unknown to you then I would suggestyou allow the fifth of November to pass unmarked. But if you see what I see, if you feel as I feel, and if you would seek as I seek, then I ask you to standbeside me one year from tonight, outside the gates of Parliament, and together we shall give them a fifth of November that shall never, ever be forgot.<br><br><a target="_blank" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TLD3Z6sJWA">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TLD3Z6sJWA</a>

(deleted because I am so useless with YUKU that I accidentally printed my post twice....duh!)

<blockquote> deleted because I am so useless with YUKU that I accidentally printed my post twice.</blockquote>That's OK Dave. It's the kind of post I wouldn't mind reading twice.<br><br>It's past 5:30 pm here and today's "money bomb" is nearing the $4 million mark. We may not hit $10 million, but we already smashed Mitt'srecord of $3.1 million in one day.<br><br><a title="" target="_blank" href="http://www.ronpaul2008.com/">http://www.ronpaul2008.com/</a><br>The quarterly total was at $2.6 million when I went to bed last night. It's about $6.4 million right now.<br><br>Gramps<br>

<img height="15" alt="image" src="http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0703/NewfieRose/EMOTICONS/ef5530ce.gif" width="34"><img height="15" alt="image" src="http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0703/NewfieRose/EMOTICONS/ef5530ce.gif" width="34"><img height="15" alt="image" src="http://www.photobucket.com/albums/0703/NewfieRose/EMOTICONS/ef5530ce.gif" width="34"> I have to say something this has bothered me since i read this. Idon't hate much in life as i am a pretty easy going guy but when i read that they protest solders funeral that made me so mad if i hate any thing in thisworld it would be the westboro baptist church and members. I will tell you one thing for my kids sake i hope the end is nowhere near but if it happens to comethese would be the first people that i would go after maybe i shouldn't be writing this but i have to say something i am sure god will deal with them inhis own way because they sure as hell arnt going to Heaven so i hope he throws them to the devil for feed <img height="52" alt="image" src="http://death6.homestead.com/files/evil8.gif" width="30"><img height="52" alt="image" src="http://death6.homestead.com/files/evil8.gif" width="30"><p><br></p>

I thought I was the only one that thought that movie was great.<br><br><img height="491" src="http://vforvendetta.warnerbros.com/img/pto_OS_V_13.jpg" width="750" alt="image">